Talk about discuss safety
standards and Transformers. This
is probably a little bit.
Uh, this gets in a little bit
just on the slide. We’re gonna
kind of go through you guys and
read them later if you’re really
been interested. You know, I
really ultimately want to hit on
the bullet points that affect
the sale, but also I need to
describe some of the, you know,
some of the aspects of things.
So the three main areas we’re
going to discuss are the safety
agencies and standards. I want
to discuss creating clearance
isolation systems.
So has everyone? Has anyone here
ever heard of a safety agency?
Can anyone name a safety agency?
You have to know what to say.
And UL.
So I think it’s important to
note that you know in the
circuit the Transformers
typically in isolation barrier
between you know what you know,
sometimes they call main or
basically on the wall to a user.
So you know if you have a, you
know an iPhone USB charger and
you stick your knife into the
socket you won’t get shocked as
opposed to if you do it directly
into the outlet. So the
transformer is a safety
isolation does device and if
there’s.
Faults. It can be hazardous.
Umm.
There is compliance required
which basically it basically
there’s a set of standards and
then evaluate standards to
ensure that the components meet
safety standards and this is
used for risk mitigation.
You know, URL’s aren’t riders
laboratory, so it’s actually
basically an insurance
organization to help companies
ensure that they’re selling
products. So for example,
typical brick and mortar stores
in the US will only sell
components have been evaluated
by saving agency as part of
their insurance policy. So if
they start selling products that
are faulty or now houses, that
reduces their risk and
liability.
There’s aspects of quality
assurance, so you there’s
consistent evaluation that the
construction of the transformer
is, you know, meets the standard
and therefore is consistent. And
also there’s some aspects of
marketability.
But here are some, not all,
specifically not because Russian
safety agencies. So you have UL,
which is Underwriters
laboratory. That’s the most
common in the US, yes. CSA,
which is CSA Group, used to be
the Canadian Standards
Association. It’s more or less
the Canadian version of URL.
Think a lot of times you find
Canadian companies that end up,
you know, more or less relying
on UL standards. You have TUV
which is German agency and also
VE. I’m not going to try to
pronounce to pronounce these
agency games. So there’s the VE
is a little bit more throughout
Europe, but it’s also during and
then you have the CCC which is
Chinas for you. So these are all
safety agencies that they write
and they write.
Standards to help ensure that
components built in the regions
and are happy to be safe.
There’s additional marking. This
is what we were talking about
Mike CE and UK CAA which is from
Brexit. Basically they can’t
mark them see that is a self
certifying. So there’s no way
additional kind of testing or
verification that you’re meeting
the specification.
So these are the common.
Standards that we deal with that
rinco, I’m not going to kind of
go in tomorrow. It’s it’s more
or less based on end
application.
The the note here for everyone
is that so you have these UL
standards, which are straight
USL standards, and then you have
these IC dual standards. So
basically all these safety
agencies said this is too
complex. I sell products all
over the world. I wanna just go
get one certification. So
there’s been harmonization of
safety standards across
organizations. These ones are
harmonizations. As a result,
they’re no longer free for us to
view because I can’t just go to
URL, so.
If you have a customer that
needs the latest standard, you
know there could be a several
$100 fee just for us to view the
standard, which is super fun to
deal with.
Charges that fee you all
themselves. It it yeah, you you
could go. It’s through what
through you? Well, I can
purchase the the specification.
There’s just a straight URL
file. I can download a copy at
no charge.
So far these building specs,
insulation systems and
everything, I can just download
this spec.
Don’t. And Barton slide from
here. What does this mean for
the sale?
You all recognition there’s a
fee involved. So basically we do
a design, we work with the
customer and interpret their
safety standards and
specification and you always
going to or another say I use
you well kind of the blanket
just just out of habit right.
Another safety agency is going
to evaluate our documentation
and our interpretation of the
standard to help ensure that we
have compliance. This is
typically it, it varies I mean I
would say.
At budget about $10,000, you
have something for the customer.
Yes, that gets that gets passed
on the customer.
It’s gonna be a full NR, OK,
yeah.
And this can take 60 to 120
days.
So this is this. You know it
can’t be an afterthought.
This also means too, and this is
kind of the and this we covered
this in in later, if you go to a
customer and say, hey, you know,
I have this competitor
transformer here and I need it,
I’m lying down and I need a copy
of it. Can you make it?
Sometimes we can do that, but we
won’t be able to meet the safety
agency requirements at that
time.
You can believe it or not, you
can pay more to decrease that
that time.
You know, I think we’ve done it
as soon as about 20 days for a
project. We had a situation
where they needed it.
And it was a funny e-mail chain.
It went when is this going to
get done? When they get it done
to how much will it cost to get
done on this day? And then I add
an e-mail almost immediately.
So.
You know this this is really a
critical part of the design
scope. You know failure to
incorporate your offer standard
can and will cause delays. You
know in terms of the the fly
back design that Matt just
discussed if the transformer
isn’t designed to meet the
Creativision clearance and
safety standards we’re going to
go a little bit deeper in you
know the customer may need to
redesign their board. The
costing may be out whacked in
their redesign the board if
different pair of.
So they might have to actually
tweak their their actual circuit
design. It can really snowball
into kind of a big problem, and
that usually rears its ugly head
at the end of the sale as
opposed to the front of, you
know, getting on top of it.
All right, so there’s this. This
terminology confuses me so I
just kind of wanted to cover
here. There’s UL listed versus
UL recognized. UL listed is kind
of more of an end croc. So when
I go and I buy a power supply,
this this one is this one uses.
Yes, it’s UL listed on the on
the component.
So this is going to be typically
end product, machinery, power
adapters and so forth. Fuses
will be listed because there
will be end product that a
customer will buy.
You will recognize will be. The
component itself is evaluated by
you. Well that’s typically we’re
Transformers fall.
You know Transformers, if you
have internal power supply that
could be itself listed or I’m
sorry, recognized as opposed to
listing it is going inside
another prop itself.
Don’t. And typically, you know,
sometimes we’ll get inductors
that are recognized, but it’s
typically should only be safety
isolation devices. So if the
component isn’t a barrier
between safety, you we should be
able to get around having.
Evaluated by you all.
Don’t.
Within Transformers, you can
evaluate and you can recognize
the component itself. So you can
have a UL file for this
transformer year that has its
construction characteristics,
treatment and clearance outline.
But more typically our customers
will include that information in
their next file.
That’s you know, that’s I would
say 90 years percent, 90, maybe
95% of our customers do it that
way. It tends to be more cost
effective.
Uh, if the transformer is only
used in one prod, so I make one
power supply, I have one fly
back, I have to pay the gangway.
I’m going to just include the
transformer aspects in that in
that file. And for that rainfall
will typically support the
customer, provide some data
sheets for material and
construction as required to help
move along. So this is the so
you know in this case too the
conformal pay all the yearly
fees for their file maintenance.
As well.
Based on how they have their
file written, it could lock
Renco in, it could say this is
renico model RL dash, blah blah
blah or it could have the pure
construction and in theory
anyone would have would that
means that construction would be
acceptable for the file. So it
really depends a lot on how the
end customer works that for us
it’s most beneficial for 19, we
just our model number with some
construction information.
So are you all recognize
component is the transformer
itself is being evaluated for
construction for use in a
specific application based on a
AU or IT specification. This is
more common when the transformer
is going to be used across
different power supplies. So you
know one of the ones I did was
for well channeling, it’s a
small isolation transformer and
they basically said we want to
use this transformer across all
our.
Power supplies and you know we
want to get it so they have the
components off recognized every
time they do power supply they
can plug that in and it’s just
glanced over by their safety
agency and you know it makes
their.
You know, it makes their process
easier for each product
iteration. So this cost, this is
what cost month. This costs
about $10,000. There’s also a
yearly maintenance fee for us to
maintain UL file.
So, you know, in my life I’ve
been instances where, you know,
we don’t sell for multiple
years. We may not maintain the
file.
And then the classroom will have
to.
You know, we’ll have to pay that
again. You know, that’s some
aspect that we have to be a
little careful of.
Yes, ma’am, which is the
maintenance fee?
$2.00 Gary has to pay it now.
2 + 515.
You guys are primarily dealing
with Northbrook.
Where’s the?
Your location, I mean, I
whenever I do, it’s always in
downstate who I usually work
with. I mean you pretty much put
an RFQ in and then they’ll
assign your random engineer
these days and they’re, I think
they’re a little less like base
than they used to be, OK.
But you know the the biggest pro
on this case is it locked in
right? So in the example I cited
with well channeling.
You know they have no choice but
to use ranco or.
Have another. You know, another
transformer house?
Create a recognized product and
they still have to open their
file and do a paper change to
add them. So it’s kind of a
double UL fee you know to for
for competent competition to
see. Can they Kevin, will they
design and submit to you all can
they can they make the design
have a couple of multiple
options. First transformer
manufacturers help.
Customers listening or recognize
file, they can, but if it’s a
custom design and you know at
the time of submission you’re
the only one that could
recognize the phone and they’re
going to just likely put your
model, they’re only gonna have
your model number and your
e-file for the transport.
So it really that depends on
where the engineer is in there
process when they’re doing their
paperwork. Now they could also
qualify another vendor, pay
their URL fees and then you know
open their file and add them. So
it’s not like a you know it’s
it’s not a situation that they
can’t overcome it just costs a
lot of money and time.
So you know and and on the
engineering and then run code.
These recognized transfers are
supported with a lot more
documentation, typically submit
samples directly to URL and so
forth.
Now there’s kind of 1/3 option I
didn’t really talk about where I
didn’t really discuss where the
customer can recognize our
Transformers on their file as
well. So they can there’s
different options there too.
They can recognize the
instruction and put us as
manufacturing location.
So that’s a little bit more. It
takes a lot of cooperation to
get that done.
So the question is what? What
are they doing right? They’re
not just.
Taking money and keeping file
paperwork. So they’re evaluating
2 critical aspects, the physical
distance between the isolation
barriers, which is commonly
referred to as a creative
nuance. So that little board
that’s going around is acreage
clearance board that Matt
currently has. They’re also
going to look at the properties
of the insulating materials and
how they interact with each
other, which is known as life
full insulation system.
So creeping clearance, this is a
pretty standard diagram.
Creepage is going to be the
distance around the doctors and
Brad here, and clearance is
going to be straight line
distance through air. So they’re
physical spacing between the
doctors, you know, in a case
where.
You know there’s a, so in this
case there’s a doctor, you’re
going to take the nearest points
because the conductor is going
to be in the same potential,
right? So it’s going to be the
shortest distance between
conductors. Any aspect of the
doctor in terms of the
transformer, what are the
conductors? You have wire.
The core is considered
conductive. Your pins.
Those are your your primary
concerns there for creating
these parents.
So this is kind of something.
I’m actually struggling with
this with the I’m gonna stand
extra job the end customer is
really responsible for.
Their end requirements, right,
because they’re driven by the
prime. So you go from the listed
project to derive a set of
standards and then based on
their working voltage and
outside that I had in the
future, you’ll determine your
creeping you clearance. But it’s
really up to them to help
determine this number. Renko
will assist, we can read the
files. Sometimes it costs money
to read the files, but you know
preparation clearance has to be
maintained not just through the
transform, but also through the
board.
So this is a good figure, kind
of highlighting the general
concerns of creeping clearance
and transport. This is the
standard horizontal mount for
you have the the ease coming
down the side.
And we have I guess 5 main
distances identified here. The
first one is the distance
between PIN to pin round.
So one side is typically a
primary one side of the
seconder. That’s a very
straightforward distance. It
needs to be in compliance with
the UL standard.
We have the pin pitch between
adjacent one, so between pin one
and two that could come into
play based upon the pin on the
transformer. If you stand across
the rail between you know if you
have primary secondary windings
on the same rail it’s very
critical. We’re also comes into
play too is there’s a big
difference if you caught up in
or you pull up.
Right, because you caught a pin,
you’re going to have your
distance to a small conductor
and then you reduce your your
creeping appearance by minimal
the the pin diagram.
You have your shortest distance
from PIN to core, so this is
becomes very a little bit more
complex so you can go up over.
In this case it’s an extended
creeping up over the extended
treatment section. You got to
look at your diagonals and every
aspect of distance from the pin
to the core because per the
creepage figure where the
conductors consider you gotta go
conductor conductor, once it
hits the core the you just
simply go to the other nearest
port in the core and add the
distances.
So because the core will, you
know, consider to be insane
voltage across the board.
So between the wire breaks in
the core this one will
occasionally get you so the lead
wire itself, magnet wires
considered All in all intensive
purposes, non isolated so you
have that distance the core
which can cause a problem.
And distance from the winding
window to the edge of the core
as well. So where you end up
going around the bottom and you
touching the core, those are the
little bit more I got you on
that really creep up at the most
inopportune times.
So other external
considerations. So you need to.
Keep in mind that this is the
core to any part of the chase
the that the power supply that
will be considered at a
distance.
You know the distance between
the core and secondary side of
components, so your diode
capacitor, so within the
transformer, what’s laid out
nearby in the PCB and while
creating clearance, which is
it’s completely on the customer
to review, right? I can’t review
their boards for safety.
Um, so.
So you’re going to have two
options for internal review. So
we have to maintain this
distance not just on the outside
but on the inside of the one.
The first one is using margin
tape, which I’m on the board
that man has and you might want,
you could probably pass them
around again just for this you
can. This one’s kind of nice. It
has a capped on film tape so you
can kind of see the tape on it.
So the tape is preventing the
wire from it’s giving you an
internal distance between
layers.
And then the other one is using
triple insulated wire which is
typically yellow or Gray based
on the thermal class and that
itself is considered to be
reinforced. You can actually in
some cases touch men where
triple insulated wire it’s still
have proper isolation.
So this kind of goes to the same
thing.
Party tape is typically enameled
magnet wire, standard magnet
wire. It’s a little bit larger
because you have to accommodate
your loss in window due to the
tape.
Um, there’s gonna be at least
three layers of tape between
winding layers. Why do they say
3 layers? Because they want to
mitigate the potential of a
pinhole. So if you think about
if you take like A roll of tape
and you.
Shoved a pin through it, it
minimizes the chance of you
lining up the pinhole multiple
times. So it’s a it’s a 3 layers
of protection you can have
sleeping and it will also.
Yeah also it’s good creep
between like winning the core
for triple and save wire. The
triple-A wire must be UL
recognized.
And as we’ll talk a little bit
later, it must be in our
insulation systems. If it’s
above Class A, they reduce the
transformer size.
And it also will allow you to do
reduce layer tape.
You as a result, though the
distance is internal, tend to be
so small you often need to have
an extended rail to meet your
creativity clearance
requirements, because once you
terminate the lead to the water,
that solder joint is now a
conductor in terms of you.
So we have multiple creep
adoptions as you guys be in the
same board. I’m you know this is
something that we carry around.
I’ll probably need to respin it
soonish, but it kind of goes to
the different options. I think
you can do a lot and a lot of
them deal with cost too. So you
got your margin tape option
tends to be a little bit higher
cost because of the labor for
adding take.
You have standard.
Some different core mounting, so
horizontal mount, vertical mount
with extended creepage. We can
do neat things with lead
breakout. In some cases we’ll
terminate to connector, so the
customer just plugs in the
connector on the secondary.
Um, we’ll have preformed in
hand, placed flying leads.
Those, you know pros and cons.
With them, if it’s preformed it
can cause problems. You know you
got to be careful on shipping
that you’re not disrupting the
leads.
Umm.
Yeah, the purpose of those
perform the because obviously in
Facebook, right?
And the reason he’s going down
there to get away from the
board, right? Yes. The distance
from the whining to the core,
the very small space and where
you cheered.
Use that question to Maria.
Small space. We’ve also had
broad breakout boards too.
Where?
Well you might have a primary
board and that secondary board
and it’s located in like
physically that in space like
for some USD item. So you can
terminate your secondary in a
different plane to versus
hitting your original mounting
plane. You know it’s it’s a good
option. The option I like even
more is this one here on the
board and basically we have the
hand placed position.
Tooled in the bobbin, which
holds the the breakout and this
case we wrap around, it’s
wrapped around the capacitor
nicely. So that was, you know, a
custom design for the customer
so that they.
Could get the hand placed and
their problem was to wrap around
the capacity. It was hard to
formally use appropriate so that
we we did a little plastic tool
there. It was pretty
inexpensive. Was it with the
USB? That was a USB one he had.
All right. Do they want to make
questions on creativity
clearance?
So electrical insulation
systems.
We we can’t just look at what
goes in their Transformers a
singular item, right? We have,
you know obviously we have your
hookup wire polyolefin orders
all their tooling. What we have
to do is look at combination
materials at a certain
temperature and what that does
is it helps to ensure that.
You know if the components get
hot that they don’t think grade
the insulating quality of of the
other components.
So this comes in flying on above
Class A or Class B type
Transformers 100. Things that
get over 105 degrees Celsius
start having to look at the
interaction materials.
So what are the materials and
and transformer? We have a
bombing.
Yes. So we have our own
installation system, yes.
Little insulation. So, yeah, I
know I’ll slide about, yeah.
So you know what goes into
building a typical ranco
training? We have a bobbin,
which is our school to hold the
windings. You’ll have a core.
Which is all intended purposes
of the pure conductor. So this
is our only non insulator and
the color is a little bit off,
but everything is blue except
for that you have wire mult
different types. So what is wire
you have enameled magnet wire.
Everyone understands what it
what magnifier is correct.
It’s the thin copper wire. It
has typically more or less a
urethane or a very thin coating
on it.
And the question regarding the
doors, yes, if you were to use
nickel single core, would that
be considered a non conductor?
You’d probably have to have
conversations with you.
I wouldn’t. I mean with the nice
with you all is usually for
enough money to evaluate quite a
bit through, but I wouldn’t.
So what Matt was basically
there’s within fair rights,
there’s nonconductive ferrites.
So how do you convince you all
and speculates now no longer a?
Beacon doctrine and then.
Not always doing this task.
Alright, so while we have
enameled magnet wire, it’s very
thick. It’s it’s copper wire
with a very thin overcoat. It’s
very thin so that you can get a
lot of wire into a bobbin. If
you think about it, if you want
you want to transfer, your key
is to get turned in.
And the more installation you
have on the winding the less
turns you can get in the bobbin
and therefore it’s uh you know
it becomes a problem. So regular
and animal magnet wire
considered basically functional
isolation like we understand it
provides isolation but in terms
of safety it does, it’s just as
good as the bear with you
doctor. You have litz wire which
is a weaving of multiple two
doctors based bear in terms of
well bear comfort.
You have a triple, say wire,
which is not that it’s going to
be typically 3 extrusions over
the water of various material.
So it can be basically a Teflon
FEP. There’s various different
triple insulated Flemings, those
ones are considered reinforced,
so there’s three potential
failure modes to protect the
user. You know. The problem is
those extrusions are typically 1
1/2 to 2 mil thick per
extrusion.
They’re adding quite a bit
diameter to the main order which
is goes against your build. We
have fully insulated wire which
is a newer magnet wire. It’s
it’s gaining popularity. So it’s
basically they call the 0 defect
magnet wire. So it has seven or
eight different passes of
urethane or steam coding on it.
In some cases that can be
considered to be reinforced
isolation.
We have foil, so legitimately
just copper foil sheets inside,
non isolated.
And your flat rectangular square
magnet wire non isolated and
your hookup wires which will be
just a single extrusion.
So based on.
You know it’s interaction, it’s
it’s gonna be as good as not.
It’s not insulated.
Variety of tapes. You have tape
that goes in between layers, you
tape that goes in between the
same windy layers and also
between different type of wine.
So I might have take within my
primary and might have taken a
barrier between my primary and
secondary. So those are kind of
two separate functions. Even in
the insulation system that can
have two separate functions, one
would be wrong, you don’t need
another one needs to be taped.
Varnishes so why do we varnish
Transformers? Anyone know why
we’ve arranged Transformers?
So if you have a pinhole in a
copper wire it’s outside it
tends to Ross. So the varnish is
a really a rust rust mitigator
in in magnetics used for other
things to help reduce audible
noise. You know it can provide a
little more robustness to the
component. It does provide some
isolation, although I will argue
with people who use it as a
sole. You know if it doesn’t
pass before varnish, I don’t and
varnish.
Fixes it and still throw some
red flags.
You’ll have sleeping.
So because the maintenance wire
doesn’t have any insulation on
it and well, when it breaks out
you often have to sweep it with
the. Usually it’s Teflon PTFE
and then you might have epoxy.
So, apologies, tricky.
You know, if it’s holding on a
core, like in this case here,
you can usually argue that it’s
mechanical support only and it
goes through you all perfectly
fine. If the capsulated, it’s
typically needs to be in an
electrical insulation system.
And sometimes it’s still a
little bit hard, right? Because
technically there is a possibly
touching and winding fear.
Probably should be an electrical
installation system.
Because I don’t have any
questions about materials.
OK, so insulation systems and
temperate.
Umm.
So Class A you can use just by
then.
You know all, you all recognize
them materials and combine them
to make a transformer. There’s
not going to be typically an
evaluation of electrical
installation system.
Class B and Class F are most
common than right now, so they
support triple enslaved water.
The yellow wire typically means
it’s leaving the Class B. If
it’s the Gray wire, it’s
typically class F and I use the
word typical loose and you can
get them in different colors.
It’s it’s not a hard, fast rule.
Once you get above that.
You’re using margin tape and
it’s a pain.
This is a you know, if you’re
doing the design and you need an
insulation system, you know, we
do a sample right over into the
sample and say, hey, we need
insulation system. I don’t, you
know, 99 out of 100 times if we
did the design, we’re fine.
Not a big deal. Go to Class B.
Class B doesn’t work. We change
them magnet wire. Now with Class
F everyone’s happy if you need
to get above class F this is a
major pain point.
In design and cost and you
really just don’t want to be
here unless you’re doing like a
downhole application where we
came in saying this is gonna
need, you know, a class and
installation system, right?
Kevin, what would be your
typical, you know, application
for more demanding down,
downhill, hopefully just down
the hall. I mean, you know, you
think about it, this component
is going to be that hot in a in
a power supply, right. So
there’s gonna be other governing
specs that’s gonna prevent a
customer from just you know,
popping in 100 and 100 and 8200
degreez part into their circuit,
right, because it will also
affect their board and you know
their, their, you know their PCB
board.
Increase and everything well.
There’s major challenges. If you
get above class F, there’s
probably a redesign.
Unless, again, you want in
knowing you’re going to.
So electrical installation
systems.
This is a.
A little bit of a scam, but.
So basically you have electrical
systems. I mean I should start
at the bottom. You have the the
OB SY2, you’ll have a company
dolls, they make varnish, they
wanna sell varnish. So they went
ahead and they paid you well, a
bunch of money to test
compatibility of different
plastics and everything with
their brands. Make sure they
don’t break down these commonly
varnish manufacturers trip once
they wire manufacturers and
plastic manufacturers have a set
of insulation systems, they’ll
evaluate tapes.
Garnishes and everything
together to make sure it’s
kosher.
What we have to do as magnetics
manufactured, we have to adopt
these systems. So more or less
we pay ULA fee to say hey that
Sumitomo plastic system we want
to use that running pill.
And as long as you need Tomo has
available for adoption, we pay a
fee and now we can use the
system that has already been
evaluated by URL to manufacture
and ship Transformers.
In addition to that fee for
every site that manufacturers
the component has to be on or
bought it. We pay yearly fee for
every manufacturing site that
Renko and Standex has to build
transforms. So all the ramco
systems right now are and then
we’ll talk about little bit
later, they are able to be used
across Standex sites and our
China manufacturing sites.
So you know there’s more moves
from China to Mexico using the
standard Mexico facility. In
those cases, Mexico can use our
insulation system already. It’s
already set up because.
So another thing to you can’t
just use an OB SY2 or OBJ S2.
Sorry I got mine.
I already had my.
Letters and numbers. Trying
right there, but you can’t. So I
can go online. I can view
everyone’s insulation system, so
I can view New England wire.
They’re at APAC. I can view
their installation system. I
could design transform that uses
everything on the installation
system just like mine, but I
can’t use it technically until I
adopt it.
So let’s come to play a little
bit.
Well, I think I I hope. OK yes I
get I have a slide on it later.
So let me talk about my rant
there. So OK within the
installation system there’s two
major things. If you’re
insulators and minors, major are
gonna be between basically
primary exactly brown. So those
are going to be those ideas that
if they fail there’s potential
for shock and fire.
And then you have mine. So
that’s gonna be uh you’re tubing
take that’s not between layers
items that are less critical
they fail. Not desired but not
desirable but should not cause
Satan concern. They’re more
looking for just to prevent
fires at this stage if there’s a
failure it’s not going to
prevent you know a dangerous
situation that regards.
Umm, you know they are. There’s
two different sets of testing
based on your insulator. The
major ones will take like over a
year to get qualified. Minor
ones can take, you know, just
months or two to two to six
weeks. So just a couple weeks on
long Dad.
So what does this mean? Let’s
say I I look at New England,
where I actually don’t have any
New England wire inflation
system. I look at it and say
this is great, I think I need an
epoxy.
So based on its purpose, I would
have to do a sealed tube test,
pay you all some money to test
and evaluate, and I’ll get a
test result to say I can add it
to my implementation of the
installation system.
Yeah, so this is a.
This this came into play a lot
last year we had a major
manufacturer delay on some
magnet wire on some triple
insulated wire which is a major
insulator.
And you know, we couldn’t just,
there’s options, but you just
can’t go ahead and use them
without having the you all
electrical installation system
evaluation done.
So.
So the common pitfalls.
The biggest problem is when we
build the customer.
Because the customer print will
say especially if build to print
saying here’s your bobbin,
here’s your wire, here’s your
varnish and needs me insulation
system. A lot of a lot of those
cases.
We’re going to have to
substitute something.
You know should be form fit
function to make the
installation system.
I mean there’s not or we could
adopt with that cost you know
several $1000, it doesn’t really
benefit.
You know the the, the No the
real need there. And in some
cases the customer may put Bob
in triple there where varnish
taste and they’re not even in an
installation system yet.
So that’s part of our our job
when we’re getting it built to
print, it’s not always as easy
as just building to print,
especially when they’re safety
standards involved.
How common is that, Kevin, when
when a customer privilege
concerning the rental?
You know, doesn’t have adopted.
I would say it’s very common and
I, you know, I think it’s it’s
very common that it’s not even
in a system together.
So you know you get challenges
because everything’s regional.
So you know if you get like a
fair Bob and they’re actually
injection molding Europe they’ll
use very European classics
right. If you get in the state
to get kind of US plastics in
China, you’re if you’re you’re
usually it’s Japanese offshoots
of plants. That’s right. So
those are major like
geographically there’s often
incompatibility with materials.
That parking capitulation
encapsulation in the pain
usually dance around it. I think
when we dance around it, people
are usually pretty good dancers,
but it can come up. So this,
this part here needs an
installation system. Actually, I
think we did picking up boxes in
our installation system, didn’t
we? And and installation systems
not in and out. It’s in there.
It’s in there.
Yeah, it’s more of a.
It should be a softer routine.
It’s not really part of the
constants normally, yeah, yeah.
So our options would be they
could put us as a manufacturer
on their installation system.
That’s an option they can put
our site or we could work with
them to adopt the installation
system.
He’s really the proper wedding.
It really needs to be one of
those two. But in this case,
there’s an insulation system.
Worst case, you’re in your hand,
slap paying you all this money
and the world will still turn
right.
Most situations are kind of like
that you all provided. You’ve
done your diligence to get up
there. So what drove that?
Please say you know material. So
we have insulation systems for
the given silicone potting
material.
And stuff wasn’t available
during the pandemic. It’s
something that the lead time is
something absolutely ridiculous.
So theoretically customer they
had their own insulation system.
And we we switched to their boxy
then verified that all the other
materials that we design, we’re
also in their insulation system
and that’s how we were able to
move forward.
Yeah. So I mean it’s again if
you’re in insulation system
together it’s you’re in a pretty
good situation for recovery.
There’s also marking
requirements too and that that
kind of falls apart as well and
and and everyone’s
implementation. So the other big
pitfall is as I mentioned
before, if you get 100 above 155
degrees Celsius and you’re not
planning on it, it’s a bet
you’re in for a bad time. It’s
going to be a redesign, you have
to probably grow the
transformer.
And bigger size relay out
boards, it’s not a great
situation.
Done.
Alright, so.
OK, ways to resolve these
pitfalls.
You can adopt an insulation
system. So you know you you had
a customer who called out
insulation system and build the
print and you don’t have it and
it all’s good you can adopt it.
It’s about 6 grand. I’m using a
rough numbers because URL
changes every quote.
You can substitute a material
and notify the the customer. So
this is a common thing. So I
have a customer. So what I’m
trying to articulate here is
they have this transformer here
and they have build a print,
they call it a core. I don’t
have to worry about cords, it’s
a non insulator. They have a
bobbin and they have magnet wire
and they call out a Bob and then
it’s not in my insulation
system. My options are right
adopt it or I can maybe retool
the Bob and into different class
that’s in our installation
system that is.
4000 and again if I go, you
know, I want overly focused on
just kind of give me an order
magnitude of these plots right?
This is not to be.
Forwarded to a customer or
conveyed in a solid way. Just
rough order cost, right?
You know or you can look at
adding the components to the
existing installation system.
Major take a year, miners take
months, and your success has
never been guaranteed in voting
act.
I don’t have calls for that.
It’s uh, I think miners are
probably about the same quality
as tooling about engine makers
are probably a little bit more
than adopting a system. So it’s
not something you want to kind
of you know you’re talking about
time money and there’s literally
no guarantee. I don’t know how
to engineer Angly assess if you
know you if the combination is
going to work.
Alright, So what do we have at
ranco?
We have the following
installation systems Class A.
There is one required. We have
130 degree C system which is
typically our R130 system.
Within that we have 8
variations.
They’re all R130, table one
through 8. You don’t have to
really worry about that yourself
says. You know in in the
application we have a 155
system, there’s probably about
five or six. We do have a Class
H, class N, and a class R I’ve
never used those. My 14 years at
run go going to be very
application specific and you’re
going to have to go into the
design knowing that it’s getting
hot.
So when you have a customer and
they go to Matt or Steve,
preferably not me, and they say
I need this new transformer
design.
Give me samples. I would say
typically all the materials that
we would be designing on would
fall into our Class B
installation system, if not our
class F installation system.
So, you know, that’s something
you don’t really have to worry
about if we’re doing the design.
If we’re not doing the design,
it’s built to print. That’s kind
of, as I kind of reiterated
several times, it can become
more difficult.
So the manufacturing
identification also must be
listed on UL file also seen as
manufacturing facilities and our
Chinese sites are on rank as
well file. So we can move
product between slide without
beyond that.
All right, then we have many
questions.
Is this you on the back of the
list?
Thank you. Much money that’s on
their table.
Yeah. And you guys, some of you
guys have met Joe.
Yeah, Ian and Ian Young there,
so.
Yeah, we have to respect that.
I’m just taking a Sharpie and
just just do it. Drop him off.
Are the engineers that are
designing the transformer
generally very familiar with the
UL requirements or is that get
into their quality guide that
it’s going to be the end it’s
going to be engineering
responsibility. So you know I
have a version of this
presentation that goes a little
deeper from the engineers you
know and this covers about
everything you know the big
thing is more well versed in in
this. Yeah I mean should be
finding your creativity
clearance can be the hard thing
and.
There’s there’s different ways.
I have some engineers who will
say, well, what’s your ULIC
spec? What’s your working well,
you know, just drill down to
what the creepy things would be,
right? And I tend to throw up
more. I personally put it more
on the power supply designer
because it’s ultimately their
specification that has to be
flowed down to me to design the
transformer.
I think it’s a little safer in
regards to, you know, if I screw
up with great new parents, we
told me, uh, you know, it’s,
it’s less of, you know, there’s
less exposure now and ultimately
we both need to hit it, right?
Like if the board doesn’t create
new clearance, it’s not gonna be
no one selling anything.
Alright, so I think it’s a check
and balance with a review.
Some engineers are going to be
better at it than others. I mean
it’s it’s just like any aspect
now. And then one thing I didn’t
mention like if it’s Mill Arrow,
they don’t care about you all
insulation systems, right, you
know, so that’s kind of a
completely different topic.
Anything else?
All right. Well, Mike said that
was going to be boring and you’d
all be asleep, so I appreciate
that.
Guys just a quick comment you
all stuff so.
It’s it’s very important that we
know what we do all requirements
are up front right. Because what
happen is if you if you don’t
know you’ve all requirements or
you don’t know if there is you
well requirements design A
product when the customer comes
back instead of ohh I need you
well installation system where I
need to meet these preventing
clearance requirements. We’ve
already sent them samples,
they’ve already spun the board.
Now you’ve got real issue right
because you may be looking at a
board spinning maybe looking at
it.
Boston bombing, you know,
sometimes we’ve selected
materials that are in different
insulation systems and now
you’ve got to go back and try to
figure out, OK, So what material
do I need to switch to get this
to fall in line with one of our
installation systems?
Conversely, you can design
something to an insulation
system and then find out that
one of the materials isn’t
available, and then you’ve got
to go back to find any other
installation system.
And then back failure, all the
materials in the back sometimes,
a lot of times actually that I
found it’s harder to design with
you well in mind than it is to
actually do the electrical or
mechanical design of the trains.
So you well portion of it can
actually be more difficult.
We actually designed, so it’s
very important that we know the
requirements up front so that we
can design something that isn’t
going to be a problem in the
future.
What you saying?
I’m sorry.
Insulation system after the
fact.
This one is gonna work and then
it goes back to the.
All right, this contact as you
well guy, it’s usually internal
to find out what the guidelines
are the exact.
See.
Cut and paste what I mean and
applications are involved.
You all requirements yourself,
yeah, but you know, as I said
though, if it’s Class A or the
customer is doing it in their
power supply, I might I might
have a single URL record of it,
right, you know?
So that I mean there’s nothing,
I would say probably 9090% of
our parts go into URL and
product. Product that’s
evaluated at some point by UL
and we have maybe.
Safety and thank you. And we
have maybe 20 discrete
Transformers that are recognized
and that’s the other thing to
point out too we have obviously
you will transform that our
capital.
Many times the customer is going
to call you up. I’m desperate
for this trace.
They send, you know, they’re
data sheet.
The standard part by.
For.
Or signal or somebody else down
there right tomorrow, so we may
not have that one.
Let’s just go right from there.
5 grand for.
More so the the problem there’s
difficult right like a switch
mode transformer it it’s it
doesn’t get a constant signal.
We don’t really know even
designing it what the waveform
we’re really looking like across
it. A 5060 Hertz can be
evaluated in that we know we can
plug it into the wall and it
should give me output voltage
and God knows what the end
customer is going to do with
that. So it tends to go through
a little bit more of an
evaluation to just ensure that
it’s.
It doesn’t have failure, right?
And again, if the customer
submitted just the component,
not the whole system. And that
component could be a building
branch job, right?
Donna, you well?
Again, we just have to walk
away.
I’m getting a lot of prints in
there since you will at the
bottom.
That’s going to be a whole bunch
of money. Get us listed and wait
six months to get it all done.
Usually they’ll just take money
from parts down. The buyer just
doesn’t know.
Thank you.
There’s no worries.
Just gonna throw this thing up
and.
Hi guys, I see you.
It’s great time now, so.
Obviously.
Basically a couple of weeks.
Very soon.
OK.
Yeah, it looks pretty good,
doesn’t it? It’s a gap, right?
You don’t really want it, right?
One with the dog.
He’s not so he’s OK, yeah.
This tool.
Flight and there’s like.
Yeah, but.
Gabriel.
Yeah, yeah.
Are you?
Possible.
Also.
Thank you.
Thanks.
It makes sense.
We’re gonna be easy.
Something.
I want you.
From my.
But they have. They have.
That location.
And I found out brochures.
Approach for that.
Yeah.
That would be.
Gary was.
I’m about to break.
Correct.
Yeah, and we don’t know.
Yep, no problem.
Appreciate.
Yeah.
Mentioned.
Don’t do it.
Yes, Ron.
I’m not going to.
I think maybe.
Black Friday.
That.
Talk about.
Anywhere.
Popular.
2.
Arizona.
Frank.
Stop.
Like this?
Ohh I’d.
Yeah, to me, if you guys stop
now.
On their end about the original.
OK.
Yeah, yeah.
Dollars.
Yeah, that was.
Then one.
China.
OK.
Let’s see.
Yeah, you can.
And that would be?
OK.
Different, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Quite.
What?
Yeah, maybe.
And somebody asked me for a
credit app and I’m like ohh move
all this stuff in work every
year.
Please, Michael.
Get her done, yeah.
You don’t want to wait.
1000.
From the.
Years ago.
Concern.
Great.
It’s like nothing.
And then you say yes.
Can I get the booking?
Musical career.
Terrible.
So it’s.
Or oppression.
You know.
They’re called, they’re called.
Lowest Health Canada.
Well, just.
Memory.
Around.
Right.
What?
Sorry.
These are nice.
Get my dog.
They get one of the.
2nd.
No, I got.
Yeah, well.
That’s, that’s great.
Holiday.
Normally.
Caribbean.
We do use it, and I
specifically.
Thanks.
Go.
Talks about.
Like thermal, performing groups,
butoxy and philosophy.
Like it’s because RTV can be
tricky to.
We also have.
How are you going to keep you
out being late? So you guys on
the application I I found myself
more than a few high voltage.
OK.
Scale.
I didn’t know that.
Yeah.
What time? Yeah.
And that.
Which basically.
Water.
11.
Customers.
I don’t know about price.
Every time you think.
5.
Yeah.
Not so much.
Expires.
What’s next?
It sucks.
About three months.
Yeah, certainly. But maybe
there’s Sherman. That’s great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I haven’t spoken.
Typically retain.
Properties.
This offers.
They’ve got a number.
You suck.
The substrate that is touching,
so therefore.
Properties.
Or somewhere.
OK and say right.
It’s not the easiest thing.
Like 3232.
I am.
We didn’t have one.
The big screen.
Hey.
Draw.
That’s usually like.
You guys are great.
I don’t know what.
It’s.
Perfect.
He is researching.
That’s true again.
Then we started.
I know there was that is.
They said they were trying to.
Something.
Alternative routes to.
You know.
Don’t even see.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
E-mail.
I’m trying to talk.
That sounds just like
essentially this.
Walk slower.
Busy.
You know what?
There’s not back.
They don’t have.
If it.
Well.
Uh, so.
I don’t know.
Four people.
Important.
Sorry.
Then you send it to me.
I guess I never talk.
Thank you.
Yes.
Care about.
Yeah, he’s good.
Yeah.
1.
So 16.
Video.
Cancel.
Circuits.
You know, exactly.
Back.
Do you love me?
Ohh the problem too. Everyone
want different forms.
Using.
OK.
Really.
Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah.
OK, what e-mail address did you
send it to?
At.
Ohh I got I got it. You got my.
I got it, man.
People.
Getting off.
Yeah.
Like.
OK.
Exactly.
Ohh you you took a version I
gave you Dan so that yours is a
drop in there.
Because you had the combined
one, you you added slides to it.
Quickly show me with slides
different. I’ll make sure it’s
good.
That’s great.
Good.
Let’s see.
I’ve got it online right now.
I said where it is. This is what
you just said.
I forget what anybody else?
There we go.
Yeah. That’s what I changed. OK,
that’s good. That’s good.
Yeah.
Do you want me to send you a
text?
And your team’s message?
That’s great then.
The shop.
Everything needs to be out.
Weird.
I should have said that.
Oh, that sounds so.
So what should we do that like?
Different party.
Yeah, I did.
Nothing.
Yeah, making the sound. I’m not
too worried about the them
filling up.
Yeah.
Doing so.
And they give us COVID.
Like some, you know?
And you know, like.
Right.
Just like a few weeks ago.
Yeah.
Ohh yeah.
You don’t want me to?
I see.
It’s like.
Language.
Did you?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Possibly.
That you are.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
Stuff in here, right? Yeah.
Start new one.
These are expensive.
So like.
1200.
Sure.
Safe.
Like, we got this guy.
Public.
Only. Only only.
60 people.
Probably trying.
It’s all over.
So there’s been a last been
option for tomorrow.
We actually the factory is going
to be available if you want to
go to the factory.
About an hour hour, 5 minutes
from here.
Don’t know what’s that over
Rockledge and Frank
manufacturing director is going
to give a tour.
So I know if you wanna
coordinate with Brent, because I
know he’s gone.
How you going to get there?
Whatever it is, what time you
think you’ll be there so I can
look, Frank.
For anyone who wants to take the
tour of the factory over there
who haven’t been there.
There could be a beneficial for
you have not been there.
What time starts at the factory?
I’ll send you guys figure out
what time you’re gonna arrive.
Yeah?
I mean if it’s it’s about an
hour and a few minutes we’re
wavering. So I don’t know like
9:00 o’clock should we say or
don’t work 9:30?
You’d rather go earlier as
possible, right? So out of here,
late be there at 9.
OK, let’s do that. OK.
Figure it out. So anybody wants
to feel tour, we’ll we’ll get
together with Mike and I and
we’ll figure it out.
Yep. Thank you.
At.
Yeah, I have a cartoon. We can
take a couple of people.
And how much?
Rainbows.
Message sending.
You know.
Other things.
Start off.
Morning. Morning. My name is
Steve Wells.
Like I said earlier, been
working with Ranco for 11 years.
This year came up on the
production floor.
Move my way up to tech working
under Joe Long learned a lot
under him.
He’s he acted as a pretty good
mentor for me.
And I showed I had an affinity
for this. So I’ve been an
engineering properly for about 3
years now.
I’m gonna talk to you today
about specially magnetics and
ITAR.
It’s going to be loose
structurally, like like the
previous two presentations. You
can interrupt and ask questions
whenever you like.
This is intended to be.
You know, a brief conversation
about these topics, we can go
into them deeper to another
time.
This will open up.
Some thought processes and ideas
about these topics when you guys
approach.
Customers for design, work,
etcetera.
So especially magnetics.
Why is it specialty? What makes
it specialized? What’s the
difference between that and
custom? Well, there’s not much
of a difference. Specialized
magnetics are typically.
You know very.
Out of the norm design work, you
know a lot of the stuff on these
boards that were passed around
earlier that’s like, you know,
off the shelf catalog items that
we that we, you know is our
bread and butter we.
Do quite a bit of that, but the
other aspect of what we do and
what Matt said earlier about
custom work.
Umm can be just modifying that
those kind of designs gently or
going kind of wild with it?
In this way.
We have ranked defined and
customer defined.
Parameters. That’s why I just
mentioned about the.
Off the shelf designs and the
customer will come out with
something totally different too.
These are usually larger parts
they have. They can have you
know, numerous subassemblies
like bobbins cases.
And even terminal block stuff
like that.
And these are require some
degree of tooling and sub sub
assembly print control
processes.
They usually come to us with
little or no documentation.
Meaning here’s a part figured
out.
Umm.
Sometimes we get lucky,
sometimes we give us some
parameters, but not always.
Umm.
And you know they’ll they’ll
range from low power to medium
to high power designs, you know.
Right now I’m working on and.
An air coil that’s like the size
of your pinky nail.
And I’ve worked on parts that
are.
Get big, you know, sizable small
creep.
Could you define low 80 low
medium power in your world and
in my world? Let’s see here, low
power would be up to what, like
40 watts?
Yeah, I mean 51.
I mean within Ranco I would say
we go from.
0 milliwatts to comfortably
about a kilowatt.
That’s.
That’s you know our bulk of our
business is 150 watts or less
buybacks, but there’s a
significant amount you know in
the that range to the kilowatt
range. Once it gets above a
kilowatt, can we do it? Yes, it
just becomes more respect and
this is kind of what going into
Steve presentation that’s more
of a specialty for us where it’s
going to be unique and you know
lots of additional
considerations.
So these following slides are
essentially some products that
I’ve worked on, we’ve worked on
together that are could be
considered especially magnetics
and I’ll go over why.
This is from richer
technologies. They’re out of New
York. They’re division of
Amtech.
Dan knows them quite well.
This is an ocular sensor. It’s
essentially a I believe it’s in
veterinary use.
Yes.
Cheap nylon rod and you’ve ever
gotten that, you know, yeah, no,
actually this is for veterinary
the first, the first revision is
a new product again rightly so.
They went into veterinary first
build up the business from the
road they will be going into. I
guess that’s a rule for human
trials and it’s like that
glaucoma puffer that. Yeah and
you guys check the pressure,
correct, correct.
This was built to a customer
specification. They had a. They
had pretty good documentation on
this one that that they had very
tight mechanical tolerances and
that was a big challenge for
this part. We had a, we had a.
A lot of conversations with
production and how to wind the
part, get it to operate
properly, get fit.
There’s a.
Press leaving it goes over the
bobbin housing.
And it.
It had a fit issue that we had
to work through and it took
some, took some doing but we
figured it out also not easy to
wind magnet wire on breast
that’s correct and or aluminum
any any hard substance like that
that’s tooled you know I got
the.
Have it properly deburred and
coated and you know for
liability and insulation.
Umm.
This part, this opportunity,
spawned a sister part that I
think was the European variant.
And.
We we’ve been making it pretty
consistently for two years now.
This one here are all 12191.
This is from LaBelle labs out of
Ohio. They’re audio.
A company they they they do a
lot of.
Leave underwater marine stuff.
Sound stuff underwater.
Uh, this is for A6 KB audio amp.
This one was interesting. Uh,
this this one initially came
through. Matt became the the
contact gave us very very loose
specs and gave us a core
cross-sectional area and give
some amount of turns you
generally wanted.
And it was more or less a napkin
drawing for being honest. And we
went from there and I took took
it and ran with it. We got
course ran through like a.
A brief first article of it on
the production floor got it
going.
Lot of tape in this part, and
there’s a there’s a reason for
that. It has a pretty big,
pretty tight capacitance spec
for performance inside this
guy’s amplifier.
And he wanted me to keep it
under a certain level.
But if you go.
If you go too heavy on the tape
problems to lie on the tape was
a problem, it’s going to be just
right.
You have to build it up between
the the primary and secondary 1.
We had to purchase a new winding
shuttle to get this one going.
This was pretty much at the
limit of what we can do in the
factory at this time. As far as
Toroids go, this thing’s about
probably 6 inches across.
And it just barely fit what we
were capable of speaking China
or here. I made that here.
The production made here as
well, that’s right.
Both of these programs. Both
boards.
Yes, change and changing and so
forth, I know you think.
I’ve had many conversations with
the engineer. He’s very happy
with the work we gave him. He
it’s funny, as we kept going, he
kept coughing up more and more
specifications. Luckily we were
falling into them.
But we had a we had a good back
and forth and there been a
couple changes along the way,
but he’s happy so far. This
part’s been going on for about a
year now.
And.
See.
It’s not the best picture. That
was our stock photo and from QC,
he’s coming back with more
designs that yes, he is. Yeah,
he’s talking to us.
Are all 12279, so this one is
actually.
Part of a a greater series of
verse engineered pulse
Transformers that Max out the
opportunity from Phoenix
induction in Michigan.
This started. This started more
or less our relationship with
Phoenix induction. These are
pulse Transformers for induction
air heaters. They’re very large.
Um, heater units that.
They’re, they’re impressive. I
saw them recently.
And.
He uses a lot of these pulse
Transformers on boards you know,
and and there are various.
You know variants of these
Transformers and this led to a
lot of part numbers. Release
gave us a lot of specs gave us.
I think do we have, I don’t know
if reverse engineered this one.
I think it was just.
This is what it is. What’s it
was? Let’s make it work.
Collaborative, yeah. Yeah. And
this is another one where you
have a pretty good relationship
with the engineer in charge on
this project.
Have a lot of conversations with
him.
They’re and again, they’re happy
with what we’ve given them. This
was essentially a good US out of
trouble. These are old parts
that no one’s making anymore. We
just need a direct cross.
You know, and they provide the
PCB for us to work off of, which
is nice.
This part went pretty, pretty
smooth. Engineer, engineer
actually sent us the parts and
with the Standex acquisition and
the folks up in Cincinnati, they
have a pretty nice
qualification.
So I was able to send the parts
up. No, I actually, I think I
visited Standex in Cincinnati at
that time and maybe we were able
to X-ray.
X-ray in the parts to what is
that what was going on and
that’s how we were able to get
the initial design. Subsequent
designs after that were just
small, small changes to the to
the to the first one we did, we
did capabilities, capabilities
in Florida, but again Standex
acquisition.
To be able to offer that the
biggest change between all of
the separate part numbers would
be the PCB, which dictates the
shape of the case that it’s
housed in, and those housed
cases are 3D printed cases, at
least right now.
They can, and I think some have
been told not all of them, but
some have.
But they, you know, the customer
supplied us in 3D printed cases
and said hey, fit this in this
package and design based on
that. So we did.
And, you know, they’re all very
similarly shaped.
But I mean, a picture doesn’t
show you too much about scale,
but that part’s probably about
gay big.
Are all 12330 for matrix
railways out of New York. This
was a recent one. This was a I
got a I got a phone call at my
office one day from receptionist
about a gentleman who wanted to
talk about and magnetics
opportunity.
He he was lying down essentially
and had this solenoid and needed
he needed it replaced instead of
a. This is a company that works
with the.
Yeah, New York transit, right?
And it it operates a part of the
braking system.
And it’s a triggering coil
essentially to trigger their
break.
You talked to me?
And this one was a very quick
turn around for us. We told you
the problem. You know, they’re,
they’re failing in the field,
they’re falling apart, they’re
old. You’ve been around for a
long time and use.
Uh, he he wanted some
reliability update to it.
It wasn’t terribly concerned
about cost. You know, something
sensible. Obviously when they
say that, then you know they’re
like, come on, yeah.
As long as you can, but but you
know if you want improvements to
the design, you have to.
Cough up a little bit. So the
the improvements I made to this
one was this was originally just
a pure bondable wire round coil
there are.
50,000 turns on this part.
Something like that, a very fine
gauge wire, and it’s just built
up, built up, built up, built
up. It’s probably about, you
know, 3 inches tall roughly, and
probably about.
Of probably the same amount in
diameter. It’s a fairly.
Fairly large piece and it’s it’s
all just wire as far as we just
concerned. So when you told me
it was bondable wire, the first
thing went through my mind was
we let’s get away from car to
manufacture.
It’s open for ease of damage,
you know, even though it’s it’s
it’s mummy wrapped in tape to
help preserve it from the
elements.
You know, it’s not the best. I
don’t like working with it.
And so to get away from the
bondable wire which you, you can
apply a current or some sort of.
Solvent to melt the enamel on
the wire to essentially make it
11 solid piece.
To get around that, I decided to
tool about.
So I told Robin.
And through a regular, you know,
heavy Poly wire on top. Same
amount of terms or at least as
close as possible.
I got a working prototype.
And I told them, I told my
contact within the company, he
calls back and he’s like, hey, I
want to send you the mechanism
of this goes in. So he sent me.
Um, the triggering mechanism
that the solenoid sits in for.
He wanted me to test it for fit,
and he kind of wanted to see it
in action, see if we were
hitting the mark form.
So you have some voltage specs
and.
And you just want to make sure
we were doing it right. So I got
a little video here so I can get
the word.
What’s to note here?
Set up a whole lot to look at
here, just the voltage in our
hookup. There’s coil.
This is what you’re going to be
looking at. And this is going to
trigger once, once it’s
activated, it’s going to, it’s
going to be like a little hammer
head. It’s going to pop down.
It’s very brief.
Yep.
We are checking the voltage,
make sure we’re good. That was
our first pass. So you got a
tool box and see the flanges
there. Got the tape installing
the first first start
tournament, the whole coil.
And that’s just the negative.
Coil sent that to him. He sent
it up the chain to his guys.
They liked it a lot.
And fit it, fit it fit that so.
I’m just interesting. How did
the guy, you said he called you,
he did. How did he get Renko’s
name?
He was based out of Florida. So
he he had heard of us. I think
he was desperate. He was calling
anybody who made coils and and
honestly we don’t do a whole lot
of solenoidal design work, you
know, but I had a pretty, pretty
good idea of what to do for him
based on his problem.
Luckily it worked out.
And this one, this one. Like I
said, this was a fast turn
around on this one. We I had a
working prototype in a couple of
days.
We verified it probably within
the week.
And sent him samples that
following week. And then we got
a PO pretty soon after, you
know.
Jim customer actually sells to
the New York City Transit
Authority maintenance insurance.
You went backwards, yeah. This
was another like.
You know.
No one’s making this anymore. We
need to repair this. We need to
refurbish, but we want the same
thing.
The operation right there laying
down.
Our breaks important in trains I
guess. Something you can do.
Not anymore.
Insulting.
He was.
I think he was a technician. He
was somebody who worked on the
brakes themselves. He knew about
the product. I don’t, I don’t
believe he was an engineer. He
could be, but he he, he was
working very closely with them.
He knew the product pretty well
because he was the guy primarily
topped it. It’s now with
engineers working from home.
It’s probably in Florida working
for a guy in Seattle who’s
supplying a product from New
York.
There’s a lot of that.
And I think that’s going to be
the case going forward, I think
so.
This one here, this is a this is
a part number very well. This is
an RJ1667 from Zel technologies
out of Central Florida.
This is actually a.
A flare igniter.
It’s a. Basically it looks like
a.
Looks like a camera film
holster. Those old canisters you
pulled filming. It’s about the
same size too.
And the way this works is these
there’s there’s three of these
parts per board, and there’s.
Numerous boards per cake of
flares, and these are put in for
training flares for military
exercises or any any institution
that requires signal flare,
flare. No, it’s it’s it’s a
cake. It’s like a it’s a
platform on the ground and
they’ll they’ll, they’re used to
ignite the player signals there.
It’s a pretty cool application.
So this this one. This is a very
high voltage part, 15 KV part.
This was this was initially a
reverse engineer. This was a.
If I recall, see I wasn’t on the
front end of this one because
this was very early in my
career. I was working on the
floor when the engineer who got
this opportunity.
I was working on it and he had
worked up a testing scenario
that I’ll go into in a second,
but.
As I recall, they were having
breakdowns from the material
within, so you know the high
voltage.
Potential between the primary
and the secondary part. It was
burning straight through their
Bob and we need to retool their
Bob and need to restructure it.
Reinforce some of the I I don’t
have a picture of the bobbin
inside, but it’s it’s a multi
section. I think it’s like 15 or
so sections to wind this wire.
Very fine gauge wire and lots of
turns, which is usually
indicative of high voltage.
Umm.
And they wanted to improve the
design, obviously, because
there’s just failed.
And.
The engineer working on it. This
is like one of the first
specialty jobs I was testing
when I was working on the floor.
He worked up a I wish I had
pictures of it because it’d be
funny to show.
But he worked up a.
A A test set up a deck where it
had all the igniter coral
boards.
And you could plug this thing
in, hook it into the board.
And then hook it up to a DC
power supply.
And the idea was you could see
this metal contact plate here.
Access your.
Your primary and when you pull
this lid down on this box,
imagine like a PVC or a a
plexiglass box I should say.
Which you can see all the parts
inside because it’s clear. And
then you pull this lid down and
had new because the volume of
these parts was. It was quite a
few of these in the beginning
because they were going through
them very fast. You wanted to
get as many tests as possible,
but the idea was you put it
down, you activate the pulse and
it would signal on top of this
plate and you you would see the
arcing between the diode and the
plate.
And it was.
Kind of dangerous to be honest.
It was a little hairy. This
parts bit me a couple times.
It’ll definitely make sure
you’re awake.
We we got away from that weird
box design and went to something
a bit more simple where he just
had a it’s more open, so it’s
actually a little bit more
dangerous, but.
Now.
I’m actually in charge of
training people when they test
this part because I know it so
well.
Like, don’t touch this. When you
do that. That’s like pretty much
all I say. And make sure it’s
done, you know, because you can
hear it. It’s, it’s a big, it’s
a big strong arm.
Umm.
But this? I cut my teeth on
this. This is like, probably
honestly, it’s probably the
first specialty design part I
worked on.
And.
We they consistently ordered for
the at least past 10 years.
Is it the their complex in?
Who were they?
Just outside of Orlando here,
they’re close by.
OK.
So that serves us a little bit
of a segue into the talk about
ITAR. So this is going to be
somewhat brief. I wouldn’t even
know what I thought.
OK.
Well, get there.
ITAR.
ITAR Rinko has been formally
ITAR certified since 2014 since
for international traffic in
arms regulations, ER is export
administration regulations.
And you know these sort of these
sort of opportunities come from
middle Arrow and other
commercial and military focus.
Companies that will work on, you
know, various commercial and
military grade parts that anchor
components, you know, big and
small, all shapes, all sizes.
All applications but it’s
designated.
Export control.
Does so those parts have to be
made in the US, is that correct?
Yes.
Now sometimes you can get a
license. We have a, we have
licenses for Standex
Corporation, for our Mexico
facility for the F35. So we have
special relations in place. It’s
a process to get them in place,
correct. We do. We do have that
manufacturing that we’re
actually doing right now for
that.
Yes and it’s it’s not a blanket
like you can now do it in
Mexico. It’s it’s it’s that
specific site, yes.
So there are a lot of controls
about them, yes, was hesitant
because there’s a lot of hairy
technicality about that. They
have to be certified, they have
to be, it has to be very public
and and known and and they have
to go through a lot of.
And the button files and sorry.
Of the eye for drawings and
things of that nature. We have a
controlled server where these
are stored on the US citizens
are able to grab that
information. You have to go
through very a lot of processes
to be able to grab that
information out of our IR folder
or have access to it. In order
to be able to work on it or to
manufacture it, just see the
drawings and stuff. So we have
this product in place and we
have them in.
In Florida, yeah. So I I think
for the sake of, you know, this
audience and I, our opportunity
brought into ranco. It would be
everyone should plan for Florida
calls.
So I Tom.
What’s the difference between
ITAR and ER, ITAR is really the
simple answer is defense
related.
All the fun stuff. Guns,
ordinance, armaments.
Weapon systems. Pretty much
anything that could be
considered a weapon system.
Goes through, I talk ER is the
commercial end of it. Computers,
propulsion systems, you know?
Yeah, general technology,
software, things like that.
But they work together. They
they’re two sides of the same
coin. They protect national
security of the United States
for preventing foreign persons
from acquiring this data.
What they consider a foreign
person is noted.
Umm.
By general background and
there’s there’s rules to that.
Uh.
So I tarney ER process the same
way within our company.
If it says one, it’s treated the
same, it doesn’t matter. And
this generally is going to go
into with your purposes is.
Identifying what it is up front.
Generally you guys are going to
know if you’re going to walk
into a company that does ITAR
and you’re going to have that on
the front of your your mind. But
sometimes you may not. There may
be a whole new opportunity and
you just have to identify it.
They usually make it pretty
obvious, but I’ve seen scenarios
where they don’t, but they’ll
just hand you a drawing. You
guys didn’t even talk about it
and you you see it’s export
control or ER or ITAR or what
have you.
And you should certainly clarify
that anytime you see it.
So export control what, what?
What does that mean? We’re
controlling technical data and
where it goes and who has eyes
on it and when.
This includes all drawings,
photos, pictures.
And all the way down to sub
assemblies if it’s a custom
design part for.
Or something. If it’s a custom
design for a custom part, it’s
going to be considered.
ITAR and controlled under ITAR.
Um, talk about that. Especially
design materials.
So this.
You know I I mentioned how
custom a custom sub assembly
would be. An example of
something like a.
Uh, like a terminal board, you
know, something like that where
you’d have, you’d have something
that isn’t going to be off the
show, you’re not going to find
it laying around in a catalog.
You’re not going to get it off
Granger. This is something
designed for this part and has
to be a very specific way.
There’s usually controlled
drawings you’re going to find.
Generally no shortage of
documentation when it comes to
ITAR, with some exception I
have. I have some stories about
that, but.
Umm.
The you might ask. OK, so if
it’s ITAR.
Where can I buy some of this
material? Where can you source
some of this material well?
Hardware screws, nuts, bolts.
Um and even wire are not
generally considered.
ITAR control if it’s on this
print. Let’s say this print
calls out #28.
MW 35200 degree Cy.
That does not mean that wire is
now considered ITAR. It is
outside of that realm. It’s it’s
it’s not a.
Specially designed material for
this component.
It does not need to be treated
in such a way, so you can source
that in. Same thing with.
Again, screws, nuts and bolts.
There is some debate about that.
As far as like the type of
screw, or how custom that screw
is, or what that screw purpose
is, but generally.
Um, that’s not really what
they’re concerned.
Let’s see.
Regular catalog standard parts
are not aytar controlled.
So we don’t have any IR parts in
our catalog.
You know some it’s just kind of
trying to elaborate on the
perils. So transformer bobbins,
if it’s like we can use China
bobbins on commercial off the
shelf Bob and that can be used
now if you do modifications to
the bottoms make it no longer
catalog standard, it would then
fall under control, that’s
correct. So you can use.
If it hasn’t come, if you want
material has commercial purpose
outside the eye your product,
you’re able to source it through
your speaker source methods. You
may have other controls that you
know that need to be in place so
you can make sure that you have
your the proper certs and you
know your your other components
right, but you’re able to use
costs, materials, individual
parties. It becomes tricky when
you have the tool or something
you know you can no longer.
Low cost reading tooler there’s
a short list of domestic cooler
for plastics.
Leverage.
How do you guys communicate
internally so if we get night or
draw and you want specifically
sent to a specific website
loaded on a?
Is that typically server
password? Yeah, so typically the
customer would provide rinco
directly the file through a
controlled so.
We rely on the customer numbers,
usually the customers FTP
server. Now we have to send it
to our documents. We do have the
spandex in the paint.
They usually don’t password
control. Yeah, it’s usually
crypt in some way, or there’s a
portal that will pull it from on
there and.
I mean, you shouldn’t just be
emailing my card on you.
Don’t do that. I definitely
received.
Yep.
It’s.
As Sam pointed out, we do have
an ITAR documentation patrol
site. All of our documentation
is kept isolated on its own
server pack.
The.
On each of our prints. We have
this generalized marking on
every page of our print, no
matter what.
Stating that it’s not turn 48
are controlled.
So internally we’re going to
know pretty right away just
looking at a page if it’s ITAR
control and and most drawings
you’re going to see from.
From it should be all drawings
that you are going to see from
customers should have some
variation of this on their on
their drums.
So.
Uh, let’s see.
ITAR components, we’re going to
say, how do we want to talk
about this?
Yes, 9102 FBI so this will.
I I foresee, but the sand, yeah.
It’s alright. So we need to talk
about CFC certificates of
compliance.
When when we build a part, it’ll
usually go through an S 9102 FAI
and it will be certified within
and sent to the customer for
their certification records as
well.
When it comes to ITAR.
That will be something Kevin is
going to fill in right now.
The idea is it’s it’s not just
one thing, alright, there’s
different levels in the eye car
and you have to be registered,
but these customers will have
typical on their points. So for
example, there’s CMMC compliance
produced from this, that’s how
we store files from one server
and that’s governed by another
aspect. Most Middle Arrow
customers would require first
article inspection for as 9102
which means.
You have to get certificates of
compliance while you’re wrong.
That means that school water
that’s been sitting in the back
of Ranco since 1980 can’t be
used on the product. We’re gonna
have to buy new wires in some
cases, like GE requires certs
from the manufacturer. The wire,
they don’t take this key
service. So kind of the gist of
these.
This page is. This just costs a
lot more for us to maintain
these products and to quote
these products and it’s just a
completely different support
structure, you know, to do this
type of business.
Welson.
And like you said, the cost
impact is is dictated by.
You know when we when we quote
something ITAR, there will be a
price difference between the
same part ITAR or not.
This comes down to, you know,
document controlling, material
sourcing, high end testing. You
know that some parts are going
to require abnormal or out of
the ordinary type of testing
that requires specialized
equipment.
Sometimes we have to purchase
that equipment, sometimes that
needs to be reflected in the
clothes.
And this is stuff we need to
explore when we’re sorting
through these opportunities.
Umm.
And FYI, are typically broken
out as a separate line item we
charge for AI.
Because we have to retain the
documentation for pump teen
years. So five years from now
somebody comes back and you
never even know what what needs
to look at that document wants
to see what what what transpired
during that FBI. And they’re
looking at just let’s take for
example the Scrooge, the plating
on the screw and the type of
metal that is used. It’s all
detailed there. So there is a
charge for it.
And we owe all those records.
That’s right.
Uh, so.
This slide is essentially.
Part of a part of a journey that
we had with the customer that.
Came into our front, literally
our front door. He had, he had.
He had a part that he needed,
baby. No one was willing to make
it.
And he works for a.
Umm.
A telecom company.
That refurbishes radar units for
the military.
And he brought it in. No one
wanted to touch it except my
mentor Joe. He was interested in
it. And he he took that part. He
reversed engineered it. He
figured out there was zero
documentation.
And we essentially made it and
this started a a pretty long
relationship with this company
that spawned numerous part
numbers that I was involved with
that I helped Joe verse engineer
and still persist to this day.
We just shipped them more parts
as as of like 2 weeks ago.
Umm.
And.
This led to the biggest drawings
in Rincon history. This led to
the biggest 1.1 piece PO in the
company’s history. How much was
that piece? Wasn’t it 28,000?
Yeah, so how how big was your
core?
On a core it was a. It was a
glued together ferrite blocks
that were roughly 2.
Two by three inch in size and
they were glued together roughly
like 18 inches high and probably
stacked about that probably 4
inches deep, 4 inches deep.
And yeah, that was a gigantic
step up and burn wound with
copper foil.
Big current, lots of terms, lots
of tooling.
It was.
It was a a challenge, I’ll say,
to get that one done, but it was
cool. It was a nice feather and
feather in our hands.
Umm, and it pushed us to grow.
We, we grew from this
relationship with this customer
and we refined a lot of our
processes during this process.
So.
I’m not going to sit here and
tell you guys how do you job,
but.
This is mostly.
In regards to how how we should
handle ITAR tunities?
Qualified the customer, is it
considered ITAR or export
control? The verbiage changes
from place to place, but.
They they should. They should
know what that means
immediately.
Um, identified the the statement
on the drawing. Know who you’re
walking into?
And know your jurisdictions.
Or what your itower ER parts
will fall under.
And and Dan’s going to talk a
little bit about DoD.
I got 35 slides for the last
part of the day before you guys
drink.
Very fun goodness.
These are some of the companies
we work with that give us it’s
our opportunities. Some of them
are pretty obvious ones. You got
Collins, Parker, Hannifin, TS is
actually the company I mentioned
about the walk in opportunity.
And the project systems which
Banbury and Matt are very
familiar with.
It’s in here, you know. Since I
cannot show you any ITAR parts,
I decided to put a photo of a
TA66 maser cannon from Godzilla.
It’s a fictional vehicle, but I
imagine if it was real, our
parts would be.
Saving the world? Sure.
Let’s see here. So.
It, it, it, it’s more or less
the same for qualification and
opportunity.
Seeking when? When you’re
dealing with ITAR or not.
One of the EU is an ITAR, not?
You know how does our 20%, so
that’s something else we need to
talk about presently.
ITAR samples are not a thing
that Renko does. We’re not
structured internally for the
document control. We cannot
maintain compliance of ITAR
within our sample department at
this time. So we do not offer
samples. We would typically take
a small run PO.
And.
Qualify that PO there and that
leads into part of some of the
challenges that we deal with the
guitar is we will have to.
Work.
More diligently to.
Iron out any sort of design
issues that would come up from
an ITAR opportunity.
That the sample department would
usually afford us the the help
with in in regards to that
sometimes when you when you you
know typical process which we’re
going to talk about here.
The traditional.
ITAR, excuse me, traditional
Renko mantra when it comes to,
you know, how we deal with
normal parts, we’ll call it non
ITAR parts.
It’s turn and burn. Get it
going, get it running. Iron out.
Let’s let’s figure it out.
So this is kind of equates to
making a print source material.
And whatever other drawings and
in situations need to be made
through engineering. This
usually will take one work day.
It’s it’s a pretty quick process
on the engineering side.
From there, documentation goes
through the sample process where
goes downstairs sample worker
build parts of the print. He or
she will come back to us and
give us feedback on the design.
If there is any or any hiccups,
any issues, we’ll iron it out.
And well, sometimes it requires
remaking the whole sample. You
never know, sometimes problems
happen. But this is when you
figure that out.
So Sam gets qualified. He was
placed for his released parts,
often chamber.
It comes to ITAR opportunities
and specially magnetics in
general. These are projects.
These take much more time, much
more effort, much more focused
to get these right on the first
run.
They have, as I mentioned
earlier.
Lots of tooling and sub
assembly. Some of it can be
purely advanced. You got to know
your GD and T you gotta know
what you’re looking at. You have
to have to really get to the
bottom of what you’re what
you’re what you’re exploring. As
I mentioned earlier as well, it
has advanced testing, it can
have advanced testing
parameters, you know.
Frequency response tests and
and.
Laying low testing.
Shock and buy thermal shock
tons. Tons of extra testing that
isn’t in normal non ITAR parts.
Uh, let’s see here.
Material sourcing, as Kevin
mentioned earlier, CFC’s got to
make sure we’re not using the
wire that’s off our shelf that’s
been sitting there. It’s got
cobwebs.
Detailed print development.
So.
This, this one I’m a stickler on
I I, you know.
To me, you can’t. There’s
there’s there’s no limit to how
detailed you can be on these
prints.
You.
You need to spell out what needs
to happen when this part gets
made. You have to. You have to
put your you have to put
yourself in the shoes of who’s
making it.
And it’s going to be US based
and I’m, you know, coming up
from the production floor. I
know how we operate, I know how
that, I know how those people
think.
I was one of those people.
So when you, when you put things
into terms, that’s going to help
that.
Succeed. You’re, you’re, you’re
going to get through this low
run PO, which is essentially
going to act as your sample. It
isn’t free. It is a PO. It’s
going to cost money, it’s going
to cost. It’s going to take
time. It’s going to take weeks
or even months to get this
project off the ground.
Depending on your issues.
You know this?
The biggest thing is that they
have to be well qualified
opportunities for us to consider
them, right. I mean that’s the
point of this, you know.
And nine from they if we if
every.
Every group brought in one of
these projects. You know, at the
same time we have about three
years of engineering and we
wouldn’t get kind of this stuff
out the door too. So there’s a
balance on and just work with
your biz manager, you got to
really make sure that it makes
sense for you know for the
organization be working on that.
We uniquely have certain things
we can determine. We need the
pricing expectations and there
are other expectations before we
spend a lot of time doing
engineering.
Especially for a non established
custom.
What do you do when military
customer comes in and wants to
use your catalog item?
They would have to be spec this
comment.
OK.
So if they request it to be ITAR
compliant, it’s not I think it’s
an off the shelf park it right
now if they want to modify it,
right. So we have so we have a
1256 strong boards, some of
those longer leads on there. We
have a version in our catalog
that’s been tested built truck
27. So they that part can be
used by a metal arrow customer
off the shelf and it’s perfectly
fine.
We do have a customer who
recently modified it.
And they’re part is now an icon,
but I can still use all my
sources of that catalog standard
because they’re used in a cop’s
farm. I didn’t have to resource,
you know, the terminals and the
and the Fr for the work to be
around.
You know you know it’s. So
that’s kind of the answer there
is if it’s, if it’s costs, it’s
it’s by definition that I
promise it’s, it’s the
commercially available. You can
Google search and get the spec
right.
That’s also a good definition of
the custom components. If I
develop that part for specific
customer and it was not in our
catalog already, all the raw
materials would then be
controlled by IR and it would be
probably a lot more of an
expensive component.
Drive towards typically around
things that go bad or deliver
things that go Bang Bang
systems.
An awful lot of other
opportunity after that’s not
associated with that that
wouldn’t have to be identified
as those would be a R controlled
and yet you have you know
there’s there’s there’s a lot of
costs for supporting these
opportunities and you know in
the system. So if we do have in
place that right go and Standex
both independently but they’re
they’re in place but it’s also a
huge time cost of engineering.
So that that’s the main thing
it’s just to make sure that we
are you know.
Spending our resources wisely
and thinking right and working
on the right opinion and that’s
more or less what this last
slide dictates. You know, we, we
this, this is the, the, the, the
engineering challenge, the
company challenge of dealing
with specialty magnets and ITAR
parts.
To you know that require a bit
more focus and handling to get
the opportunities off and
running, qualified and shipped.
Than usual.
Takes money, takes time, takes
effort.
But.
They have good chaos. Yeah, we
make, we’ve had a lot of good
relationships with with some of
our ITAR vendors and our, you
know, customers that we work
with ITAR.
And.
They’re pretty happy when we
ship something.
Something that works pretty
pretty pretty well for them,
especially when they didn’t give
us much documentation to work
with.
That’s all I got.
Thank you.
Any questions?
Question for you, Steve. What’s
up Steve and for the rest of the
engineer chiming in. So when
you’re going through the
specialties, they specialize
designs, common bullet statement
you have on your slide is good
relationship with engineering
and good personal history, which
has led to PO’s and a lot more
opportunities, which I’m sure we
can all appreciate very. So for
that that piece.
What defines a good relationship
with the engineers to give them
and how do you using?
Putting engineers in front of
other engineers, we have to have
a good open communication with
each other.
And speaker minds now hold cards
close to her chest and, and, you
know, in my experience, that’s a
very easy thing to do. But it
doesn’t always come across as
organically as it could. You
know, let’s, let’s put these
engineers in the same room and
let’s talk.
Let’s work it out and it’s great
to have a an engineer contact so
close to the to the opportunity
that we’re working on.
To bounce ideas off of, to make
sure we’re in the right
direction, we’re hitting what
they want us to hit.
That’s what I was getting on.
I think it’s knows it’s
magnetics designer, we’re
subject matter, right. So
building that relationship with
the customers on the news that
the other most important, right,
the test of that is after you
work with an engineer on a
particular part, right, is that
engineer going to call you up?
They’re not.
And I think that’s how you know
when you have any relationship
established, they respect you as
a subject matter expert. They’ve
got a new design coming in.
They’re coming into Renko F80 or
Renco in general standards.
And that’s a tough goal of mine
personally, and I want to build
these relationships so we can
you can Remember Me next time
when he has an issue.
More opportunities?
And the other side of the coin,
let’s create a poor relationship
where we’ve lost opportunities
where we missed that.
I think in you know the these
type of opportunities, anything
that is you know deep
engineering that may or may not
be ICAR, if there isn’t direct
engineering engagement that’s
you know we we preferably want
Franklin engineer speaking with
customer engineers, right. But
the very least we don’t have an
engineer default to it, it’s
going to be difficult. So you
know.
This is something that Sam knows
well, right? Yeah.
You know if you get a print and
you’re building out part that
the print was issued in the 80s,
how many times can you go
through in a 91 or two FBI with
your accent?
And they answer that basically
no materials are obsolete.
There’s going to be exceptions
maybe we might not be able to
get the test equipment that was
called out. You know maybe
you’re all Genrad Bridge is out
of Commission that called out.
So if you don’t have an
engineering engage or available
to you know to work the project
through it’s just not going to
go through especially when you
know and same with specially I
mean in the break example see
the technical buying on the get
go and that’s why the.
Project was really successful.
Now it was just a a purchasing
person talk with no technical
background, right? It just
there’s just no path forward.
Right. And you know, it started
with two engineers talking to
each other and then I got my
salesperson involved and got the
ball running organically that
way.
I mean I don’t want to say that
it has to come from an engineer,
but there’s no engineering
resources like for you to ask
questions on these type of
projects. It’s probably you know
it’s going to be difficult
approach.
And then finally for ITAR
opportunities is usually quite.
It can be quite strict. It can
also be quite loose sometimes
these people are very proactive
about what they’re sourcing and
when they will, they will.
Give you a a wide berth to work
with because they understand
that there’s a lot of
technicality and a lot of
knowledge needs to go into
making an establishing the
ability to make these payments.
Are you guys done in the art car
design with customers?
Outside of these.
30.
Now you got from.
We decided we didn’t well it’s
it’s it’s like so you know we we
could talk about because.
That’s OK. But like the, the,
the stuff we did up in
Jacksonville, how long did how
long has that been going on?
Seven years, seven years? We
quoted 4 parts and how many are
we in product? I mean, we’ve
quoted more than four, but the
first page of four parts, how
many are we production on right
now?
No open orders.
But we did have one part of the
product. Yes, we do.
Yes, he’s over.
And so you guys, yeah, yeah. And
in that case, how many times did
we go? We went and visited for
probably 6 times at least. We do
that. And they came to visit us
about three or four times.
You take your personnel, so
they’re kind of giving
personnel.
Yeah.
You were rewarded, yeah.
So from a costing perspective,
right military parts and
aerospace parts are more
expensive, not because
necessarily the manufacturing of
the people is harder than the
right differences that you take.
You take this $3 transform and
what makes it a 60 or $100
transfer.
Fact that all the engineering
time that goes into it quality
departments time doing the FAIS
and all that and also the
testing right. So the testing
the documentation that goes
along with the testing. So
you’re not just you’re not just
manufacturing these parts
testing inductions and VCR and
shipping it out the door you’re
reading withholding that
information which is something
that the cost of your argument
with all the additional cafe I
paperwork that goes along with
that.
So it’s not that the transformer
is anymore less expensive to
make, it’s all the paperwork and
engineering time that goes into
it, which is what drives up
falls.
Right. So when aerospace
customer comes in and says I
have all these requirements and
oh by the way I want it for $3,
you know, that’s a big red flag
right there to say that it’s not
going to happen. You know, we’ll
pass on.
And just, you know, getting into
design into if you’re doing the
design from the ground up.
And it’s kind of more of these
simple fly back if the
application going to be military
aerospace you know that needs to
be known in design and just like
the UL aspect. So for the most
part they don’t care about you
well but they’re going to be
other reorganization and
reliability concerns that have
to be put in the design that if
you know our you know aren’t
accommodated for it can it can
be problematic for the launch
you know if it’s if it’s going
into space commercial space.
Not be governed by ICAR or or
most export control regulations,
but it’s still going to have to
hit like Mills Mill Prep 27 and
no standard 91 destiny. So those
parts would you know would fall
into some of the similar. As
Matt said, the logic and empty
tested were also the materials
that we’re using to build and
design are going to be
different.
Kevin, do we shy away from many
of those applications that are
no mission?
Think within Renko when the
scanex or we should be working
on it. I I don’t you know
there’s there’s no doubt about
that. We just have to understand
that you know, it’s a long term
project investment.
You know that the cost we need
we cost segmentation and time
expectations including testing.
And we really need to have
engineering and engineering
buying at the end customer.
So I, I, I don’t think I’ve seen
a single military aerospace or
or even deep specialty design
that we won that came from a
purchasing procurements person
without having an engineer
assigned to them.
Yeah, it’s always engineer,
engineer, relationship, somebody
betting it. You always have
somebody inside being your
dance, Michael or whoever as the
focal point, pushing the
engineers, making sure they have
the interactions there in order
to proceed. It isn’t one person
that always does it. It’s joint.
It’s really a joint teaming
effort. One thing I want to
emphasize is, hey, there’s a lot
of times that Ringo won’t be
able to go after mirror.
Yeah, like the Lockheed or
Raytheon. It’ll be reviewed.
Cincinnati will review it up
there and say, yeah, it’s going
to be it, it’ll be a good fit
down a Renko or no, we need to
bring this up here because the
ITAR regulations of some other
other manufacturing, most likely
that manufacturing was done in
Cincinnati. That’s where
majority of all of our bilateral
business has been really done.
And did you know, so we, we
collectively between all the
divisions we all work together
to, to in order to go after some
of these opportunities. I get
opportunities that say you know
what this is it’s a mild arrow,
but it’s really better fit for
Ringo than it is for standard. I
send it to Kevin, Kevin Sinfield
to Matt or whoever else and they
run with it from there and
likewise, yeah. So we all, it’s
constantly being reviewed. So if
you do bring an opportunity by
all means it’s.
Very well, very. We’ll take a
look at it. You will be paid,
Commissioner.
He did go to Cincinnati. You
will get paid Commission on
which the internal agreement
we’ve all had, we don’t have
reference Cincinnati and but we
will cover you guys for any
opportunity that comes in, but
as we go along presentation is
that.
You guys get out early now.
Just make sure they’re red.
That’s the big thing. You have
the content.
Thanks, Steve, you mentioned.
Thank you.
OK, you have me again.
So.
Who was here the last time we
did EDS?
When was that?
2018.
Yes, that’s where ES did you go
to Vegas? Who here remembers
2018?
OK. So pretty COVID. Yeah. So I
do apologize. This is going to
be a regurgitation of the
President of the engineering
presentation there. But I think
it’s just really good to
reiterate and the idea is to
synergistically sell your
principles, right. As much as
I’d like Ranko Standex to be
your only focus in life, we
understand that. You know, you
have multiple principles and.
From our experience.
You know, for doing this for a
while, we can get some very
successful synergies between,
you know, the different products
you sell. So this kind of
presentation want to walk
through a power supply and we’ll
discuss various other components
in addition to the magnetics.
So here is a.
Offline power splice demanding
and you know we I should brought
the board I guess I didn’t I
wasn’t very prepared for this
year. So you know, so this is
kind of a little bit of a mess
for you guys, right? Is anyone
here comfortable reading
schematics? OK, so we’ll go a
little bit you know we’re going
to go a little bit more into
this. So what are schematics?
There are electrical diagrams
used to design A circuit. They
are actually intended to be
human readable.
Right. So it was organized.
There’s organization in the
schematic.
They can be used to simulate the
design. So before speeding up
the board, most engineers like
to have some idea that it works
before they they go ahead and
populate and do that. It’s
commonly given to a layout
person to do a PCB. So you
design A circuit in a schematic.
If you are in a small org, you
lay out your PCB. If you’re a
larger org, you might be able to
send that schematic to someone
to lay out the the PCB.
And you know, a thing to note
that the components all given
designators on the board, they
would know the designator for an
doctor.
Now out.
Do they know the designator for
a transformer?
Tea tip and I have seen, I’ve
seen XFMR on some, you know it’s
not.
You can write out well, you can
write whatever you like on your
silk screen. Those are your
common ones. What’s your
capacitor?
Yeah.
Exactly. So our resistor so
forth, OK.
So the the components are giving
unique designators, typically
printed on the screen, which
typically matches schematic.
OK, so that’s schematic. When
implementing the board it looks
like this.
OK.
This is the same. This is the
same item that was shown just in
a physical implementation. And
by the way, this is all a Texas
Instruments reference design, so
we’re going to go through their
docs.
So how do you read, how do you
make sense of this? Right. So in
general, the all of our boards
which are offline, as I
mentioned, there’s the part
that’s connected to the wall and
there’s a part that is
accessible to the equipment and
humans and they are typically
DC. You’re going to have a
dividing line that is your
isolation line. So you have AC
and then DC on the output and
you can typically almost draw a
line in every board.
So on the board that same
location is here and this is
what physical line demarcation.
There you can actually see the
the the missing copper
separating your high voltage AC
to your low voltage DC. Use
that. That would interface with
the users and equipment.
So where do you begin?
Does anyone?
Does anyone know the best way to
kind of identify where’s,
where’s the where’s the head and
where’s the tail of this?
Though.
You need to find your front,
right? So how do you find your
front? On a schematic? I always
look for your diode bridge. It’s
usually one of your very few
diagonal.
Drawn pieces in your schematic
you can actually fly and that
and that can cause a little bit
more confusing. It can cause a
little more confusion on the
board.
The telltale the front end.
Typically your biggest cap, your
ball cap, and it should be like
probably a 400 plus Volt cap if
it’s going to be universal
input.
Usually you’re not physically
largest tap and also ask
capacitors are telltale along
with your common mode chokes.
So when you’re looking at board,
that’s usually what I draw my if
I’m looking at board, I draw my
eyes to those components. That
guy, this is the front end, and
you know your smaller
electrolytic caps are in your
output.
Film schematic. You have a front
end filter. This takes your wall
voltage.
And it’s going to filter it by
direction can prevent noise from
entering the circuit and
hopefully prevent noise from
leaving the circuit including
the line. And it’s also going to
rectify to DC.
They want everyone familiar with
the term rectification.
It’s converting AC to DC.
So, OK, so that’s just going
over what I said. I usually look
for the bridge.
So.
Here’s the here’s the front end
filter on the command.
All right. And this is kind of a
nice little slide here. You can
actually go in and you can see
there’s a connector, there’s
your wide gap.
Here is your ex. Your ex cap
common Mocho, X cap common
mocho.
And so forth.
Yes, you should be able to see a
direct.
Relationship to those. So here
are hopefully some of your some
of your other items you might
sell. So board connector, you’re
going to need a way to get power
from the line into the board.
So if you sell connectors,
that’s, you know, a need the
customer is going to have if you
have a mom for a fuse.
Those are both typically in the
front end.
They mentioned your ex caps. And
why caps? Well, they’re
filtering components, so it’s
going to be used in the front
end filter.
And in this case, there’s a
thermostat as well.
We also have a common mode
choke.
Hopefully you can get that in
from ranco. This is actually not
Orenco common mode choke on
this.
But when it comes to common mode
chokes, we do have a catalog
standard cell line various line
frequency common mode chokes. We
also make custom, mode jokes
like this guy here. This one’s
for Regal Beloit.
Sometimes, in addition to a
common mode choke, you might use
a little in doctor responding.
That’s pretty typical.
All right, the next section is
in this case we have power
factor correction. So power
factor correction is typical in
power supplies that are above 80
watts. What it does is it helps
ensure that the circuit is using
power with voltage and current
phase, AKA how the power company
generates power. You know you
generate voltage, you generate
current, and everyone’s happy.
Due to switching technologies,
you can try to pull current when
you wouldn’t normally be
pulling.
Current and that kind of puts a
stress on the grid.
So this is actually a European
regulation over 80 watts. It has
to have a certain power factor
correction.
OK.
So what this is doing is it’s
actually going to step up my
line voltage to around 400
volts, which is why you’ll have
a bigger panel here.
So item we have a diode. Nothing
too crazy there named Doctor
Ryan. This is often a custom you
can get away with the standard
power factor correction show.
You have your big large cap, so
this is 270 microfarad 450 Volt
capacitor.
And also we have an extruded
sink here for the switching
effects.
Does anyone have any of these
other principles that I’ve
mentioned so far?
So who here is an electrolytic
line?
Right, so that I mean this, this
big cap is a big, this is a big
telltale that you know someone
is at least plugging their thing
onto the line voltage.
Alright, so your diode crazy.
Anyone this room is going to
retire from from selling a diode
in a power supply?
First of all, candidates we
leverage do.
I think it talked about a little
bit. Yeah, go ahead. Why don’t
you go ahead, Gary.
So those of you do have a CAP
line and if you see ball caps
are usually done by as POF and
Florence and like that, that
means it’s probably as Kevin
mentioned the transformer. Other
than that that’s the customer
should have to be calling.
Yeah, so.
That’s something to keep an eye
on your POS reports, right?
They’re just buying a couple
from digikey or or whoever they
might be in an early design to.
Of the the earlier renko’s
involved in the design of a
custom magnetic, the higher hit
rate is. I don’t have a
statistical number but I think
all the business managers here
and can can attest for that got
feel on that.
Alright, so we got the diode, we
got the bulk cap, which is
typically an electrolytic.
In the cases where there’s not a
PSD, there’s gonna still be a
big ball cap, so it’s not a all
or not there. There will always
be this capacitor.
As I mentioned the heat sink.
And the Pfc and doctor here.
So.
Going back to schematic.
All of this, all their stuff
here. This is your log, your
control. So this is your small
resistors, your multilayer
ceramic caps diodes. That’s
nothing.
Probably too exciting for months
now. Maybe if you’re, you know.
Alright, so now we’re going to
go to the main transformer which
is it’s an LC resonant
transform. So you can do this in
one part or two parts, but
basically you have in this case
we’re resonating an inductor
with capacitor giving the
sinusoidal waveform which gives
you 0 voltage switching. So
basically if you’re able to
switch your power supply when
there’s no voltage, you reduce
your losses, gives you more
efficient, less knowing the
circuit. And then we have a
transformer.
Background in some designs are
together. I find it easier to
design an LLC with them separate
unless you’re going into really
bulk mass production.
So like typically you’re, unless
I checked your power supplies
for most of your consumer
televisions are really small LCD
resin Transformers.
So the output of this, so we’ve
gone through, we’ve converted
the high voltage AC into DC and
then we’re hoping DC is going to
have you know your low voltage
caps to smooth the ripple
voltage now. And in case of a
fly back as mentioned, you know
you have the capacity which is
actually supplying energy to the
circuit when you’re charging
your primary and documents.
A lot of times there’s inductors
not on this circuit, but the
inductor will help smooth ripple
current.
These are typically low
inductance, high high DC
saturation type devices.
For those we probably picked
from the catalog standard right.
So you know these are are more
or less standard product. We got
the 5480 series, 6280, this one
be probably about the most
popular for now putting doctor
it’s going to be about your
highest current, the 8700 and
the 7485. These are very
standard components. I would say
that most magnetic vendors have
similar product if not direct.
Processes and vice versa, that
would mean we would have direct
process many of our competitors
standards.
So in addition on this board.
There’s a second AC/DC power
supply with the LLC.
So this one is just a little 12
Volt power supply. We call it a
housekeeping supply.
So the challenge with when you
work with the high power
circuit, a lot of times if you
need to have it the output of
that separate from your your if
you need to support your your
IC’s and your low voltage items
with power you typically want to
do a separate supply because you
better regulation it doesn’t
disrupt your other circuits so
you more or less just kind of
pull from that input voltage at
different power supply.
And this one’s located on page
two of the print. It’s going to
be after the Pfc rectification,
so it’s going to be like a 400
Volt input fly back.
Which makes it nice when you go
after the Pfc because you have a
very consistent input voltage.
It makes the design easier.
So that’s here you have the
little fly back transformer here
and there’s also a little wide
can connect these primary and
secondary.
And then you have your output
with.
All your capacities and then
another.
Another.
Connector for the outlook.
Something to consider, like what
else? What else? What else do
you need? Is this person going
to need? Unless you’re just
making the board and passing it
on, there’s going to be
packaging. That’s any your
enclosure, fans, surge
protection membrane switches
from who’s doing the PCB, who’s
stuffing it where you getting
the PCB from your interconnects.
So connecting wires to wires or
you’re clog. You know who is
selling who? You know how are
they getting power into this
device?
These are all opportunities for.
Additional cells on the same
product.
And you know a lot of engineers
are just, you know, a lot of
engineers are purchasing are
happy to deal with less people,
right and kind of the nice thing
is.
If we’re designed in it, Renko,
we got the transformer.
You know, we should be getting
the order. We should. You know
the purchasing person and the
engineer are.
For more or less they’re engaged
with us, right? So these other
opportunities, they’re just a
lot of times grabbing them from
the catalog.
Strong.
So it’s kind of a summary of the
power supply flow and I’m going
to then just reiterate this, I
think three times.
Just to really drill it in,
there’s typically three to four
sections. You have an input
filter and rectification, so
putting power into the circuit
and we’re typically turning into
some form of DC voltage.
There’s a Pfc stage, which is
optional. That’s how we have
three to four stages. If it’s
over 80 watts, you probably have
PSC. There’s going to be a main
transform that is going to
convert the input power to the
input voltage to the output
voltage and power desired by the
application. There may be more
than one transformer.
And then we’re going to have
output filtering. So to ensure
that the outputs are smooth DC
condition that’s required by
the, you know, whatever is being
connected to it, there’s going
to be additional filtering. The
other note is that the PC is
going to typically follow the
schematic.
You know, I I mean, I know
angiers can be strange at times,
but they’ll typically be
illogical from the front to the
end, and that will also be shown
in the PCB.
And you know, another thing is
to kind of know and understand
where your other principles are
found in the power supply.
That’s kind of whole point of
synergistic zone.
Does anyone have any questions
about that before we?
Go through the power boards, Mr.
Miller.
Excellent. Can you talk about
the?
The the the Bob Gathercoal
triple dip.
So the best, the best
synergistic cell. Unfortunately,
Bob gather calls not here.
I don’t have a part, I have it
at Booth. We had a part that he
worked with the customer on the
design and he designed in a
machine steel tubed and then he
sent it Renko then assembled a
transformer inside the steel
tube and we had to use his
sources apply and then we sold
it to the CM that Bob Gathercoal
also wrapped so.
So Triple Crown that was yeah,
yeah so.
I think that’s the has there
been more than triple dip?
You know Bob, I think both the
record, you see double dips.
Double dips are quite common,
right? Yeah, it’s going to you
know CMU Rep that will give her
side of the equation, improves
you guys to give us your line
cards because you know we’re
looking for something we can,
you know, it’s obviously makes
more sense for us to try and
access that through you because
it’s a lot easier for us to find
the components, right. And that
also allows you to do
essentially the double that
right now not every the sales
Rep can pull off the triple
deck.
Takes Bob gather pole, but it’s
something that you all should
perspire to achieve.
I’ll say this, but one thing I
hope you never hear from my
Brimfield business manager, I
think.
Never object to talking about
your otherwise in front of the
task.
Understand as part of the
synergistic selling process the
red brings.
Yeah, I know you have other
principles that probably
objective. We will never ever
object to this. If they will
never do, let me know and I’ll
talk to him.
I mean we, we understand that,
you know, it’s all about the
total account, right?
And I mean there’s many accounts
that we go in and.
You know, it’s it’s clear that
the that the Rep is well versed
in the account, is selling
multiple lines and makes runco
more important in the account.
All right.
Any any questions?
Alright so I’m so these this is
going to be a walk through. I
don’t have the schematics but
these are legitimately I just
Google search power supply.
About, you know, eight years
ago, but you know, just to show
that this flow is universal,
there’s there’s nothing.
So as I mentioned, there’s your
AC input, there’s your filth
front end filtering your
isolation output in DC. This is
not a ranco component. I don’t
know what this is from.
But so how do you find it? So
where do you? Where do you
begin? At the beginning? So how
do you know where the input is?
Large.
Yeah, however you can remember
is the answer, right? So you
have your big common mode choke.
Common mode chokes are usually
easier identify their wine
units. Being your ex steps, you
got your big cat, you got some
more camps and you have a
connector.
Along with something that gives
you a high voltage.
All right.
So yeah, you have your
connector, you have your common
mode choke. So this case there
would be custom, you know.
You know, we we have catalog
standard, but it varies, right?
There’s about a 5050 from
travel.
Yeah.
So the next stage is the AC/DC
isolation that would be.
Right there, right. And you can
see a couple things, #1 there’s
actually a line on the silk
screen kind of A to separate the
two. And also you know you can
see that they split their their
heat sink that’s so that they’re
not they’re they’re separating
from the high voltage to low
voltage side because if they ran
one continuous heat sink it
would be a safety concern.
Yeah, I mean this, this has your
creeping clearance, which I
guess we can talk about.
They were doing gas, right?
Yeah, that’s well.
We get to there, so there’s your
main transformer, so your
output.
You have your 2 electrolytics.
And then in this case we have
something that’s similar to our
5480 series, it’s not our 5480,
but it probably cross or drop in
there.
And then we have our DC output
we’ll connect on.
All right. So this next one.
Again, we’re just kind of, I
just really want it’s all this
is all universal for the most
part.
The same idea.
Where’s the AC input?
Anyone.
Right hand side left, left the
comment.
Right there.
Yeah. So, so again.
I’ll use a laser pointer this
time here.
We have a big ball cap, so
that’s an indication that this
side of the transformer.
Yeah, yeah. They they lay down
the cat because it’s so big.
I have no clue. I googled it, I
don’t know, so I see a mistake.
What’s the mistake? Why do they
have a pin header for the
output?
Because normally on the other
side you have.
That’s a safety issue.
OK, we’ll take your word board.
Way too long to look at that.
This is why you don’t.
This is why you don’t buy random
Amazon Power supply.
So you have you know you you
have your big ball cap. If your
ex caps you have a common mode
choke because this side of the
transformer is going to be your
AC input.
So connected your EMI filter.
Yeah, it’s the Y caps X Capcom
mojo.
AC/DC isolated the main
transformer, so again there
should be a decent line of
demarcation. This distance
actually concerns me a little
bit. Yeah, so you’re right, it
probably doesn’t create between
France.
And your output filter, so you
got your network multicast.
Those two look like they’re
inductors that I’m pretty sure
that’s an inductor on top, yeah.
And I think this, this one, I
don’t know if it’s the last one
or there’s one after. We’ll see.
We’ll all be surprised together,
OK.
I see.
Question this one same question
before. Where am I beginning?
And why?
Yeah.
That’s.
OK. Well, I mean that’s the
thing though. They’re all
flowing this way, right? I mean,
you know, you can in theory go
from right to left, right and
you can flip them and you can
fold them, but you’re, you’re
generally going to want to and
and this goes into safety,
right. You, you have to maintain
your creep and clearance
throughout. So if you don’t have
a good idea where on your board
you’re maintaining it, you’re
probably going to end up having
problems. So this one’s nice.
Because it has in the silkscreen
danger mains voltage along here
and you see the only thing
standing in you have your white
cap. We have a couple optos.
And then the transform,
obviously.
Right.
So your AC input this little
Jack here.
Your EMI filtering.
Here so this is neat. So this is
a, it’s an R 4400. It’s similar
you know just to split you you
who are whiny we have here the
custom filter inductor.
This is this is someone’s
costume. This is not an off the
shelf.
It’s not. It’s mom with one
triple save, one magnet wire 360
around, which would not be
normal. It’s probably a very
high free. My gut is it’s a high
frequency common mojo that
happened. Measure you know, a
big ball cap.
And then you have either here,
it could be a Pfc. I can’t tell
because there’s a shield and I
couldn’t remove the shield in my
Google image. But there’s a wire
while item underneath there. It
could be a filter, it could be
like a differential mode show,
it could be a PSC. I can’t tell
I’m schematic.
Your AC transformer, your main
transformer I already pointed
out here. I can tell from the
picture too. And the flux fan.
On the output. Anyone familiar
with what a flux band is?
So one method to remove to
reduce EMI from the transformer
would be to wrap a copper foil
around the transformer and then
you typically would ground it.
Not always and that will help
mitigate EMI from the radiated.
I mean, I guess it could prevent
conducted too, because it’s
going to act in pain as well,
but it’s typically for radiated,
right?
There’s an output filter.
You can see if you look
carefully, we got capacitors and
I like this picture here because
you connected to this L5 in the
back. So unless there’s been
board revisions, how many
doctors are probably on this
board at minimum?
OK.
So I will say a common mode
choke is sometimes list. It
really should be an L, sometimes
it’s listed as a T.
It gets confused because there’s
two windings. So people I’ve
seen it both, I can’t tell here
what they’ve done there.
Umm.
Alright, so this is the last
slide, the question I have for
everyone here looking into this
board and I discussed a couple
things. What do you think is
probably important to this
customer?
And we don’t know anything about
them. It’s a Google image.
We have.
Hit one is we have a strange
high frequency common mode
choke.
Doing some extra filtering.
What’s that? Yeah, exactly. So
you got shielding here.
Big Shields here. And also the
flux band on transformer. So you
conducted and radiated issues,
what they’re addressing, right?
Yeah. I mean, well, I mean,
again, I don’t know who the
customer is, I just grabbed a
different Google, but this.
So you know, these are things
where you can, you know, add
value and recommendations. If
you can identify that their
concerns are EMI, RFI, it might
alter some of the products you
would recommend.
All right. Does everyone? Other
than going from left to right,
does everyone? Is that helpful
on looking at the boards?
All right, so what’s everyone
going to look for for the input?
The input.
Alright, so you’re all right. OK
you know, just just keep in mind
whatever makes sense in your own
mind is what you want to use.
That’s the gist, right? You’re
just good at picking out the big
cap. Pick out the big cap. If
you’re good at looking at common
chokes, look for common mode
chokes. They, you know, they
might not. They may not always
exist. It’s under 10 watts. It’s
probably not a common mode
choke.
So.
All right. That’s all I have.
And I think that concludes our
engineering portion of the the
day.
Thank you.
It is out there. Yep, we got
early launch.
Hour and a half.
Sounds good.
Typically.
Connecting.
But it doesn’t.
30.
National Bank.
Or something.
But yeah.
Ohh, I’d probably just yeah.
I started my.
Yeah, like we understood.
Normally.
OK.
You know you can.
Something.
Thank you.
Wait too much longer?
Yeah.
Cortana.
We just have.
Last.
I got.
Look at my front door.
It’s not talking about.
Your body.
Village.
400,000 houses down.
Yeah. You know, yeah. Yeah.
Function.
It’s.
Mike, I see that 1256 would be
long, is there is that?
That’s what I thought, but the
correct. I know I suck. Look at
the bottom. There’s some kind of
reinforcement pad on the bottom
of that one.
That one, that one.
Cancel that one.
The earlier ones were there
cranking it out.
Back in the back in the hip
Ferrites starting about 10
minutes 12:30 ohh no, I’m
getting ready to go down.
We can finish up early.
And I’m sure it’s heated. Still
got to get it out.
Thank you.
I told him you said, hey, David.
No, that’s right. Yeah.
Like I’ve been walking.
You know you can never return.
We haven’t really gotten a lot
of traction with buildings.
Yeah.
Graduated last year and we’re
trying to build.
I don’t know, but vitamin and I
met with walking five times and
there were nice guys and they
were receptive. But yeah, we got
one order on them, but that was
it.
Couldn’t we going to Saturday
night?