Talk about discuss safety standards and Transformers. This is probably a little bit. Uh, this gets in a little bit just on the slide. We’re gonna kind of go through you guys and read them later if you’re really been interested. You know, I really ultimately want to hit on the bullet points that affect the sale, but also I need to describe some of the, you know, some of the aspects of things. So the three main areas we’re going to discuss are the safety agencies and standards. I want to discuss creating clearance isolation systems. So has everyone? Has anyone here ever heard of a safety agency? Can anyone name a safety agency? You have to know what to say. And UL. So I think it’s important to note that you know in the circuit the Transformers typically in isolation barrier between you know what you know, sometimes they call main or basically on the wall to a user. So you know if you have a, you know an iPhone USB charger and you stick your knife into the socket you won’t get shocked as opposed to if you do it directly into the outlet. So the transformer is a safety isolation does device and if there’s. Faults. It can be hazardous. Umm. There is compliance required which basically it basically there’s a set of standards and then evaluate standards to ensure that the components meet safety standards and this is used for risk mitigation. You know, URL’s aren’t riders laboratory, so it’s actually basically an insurance organization to help companies ensure that they’re selling products. So for example, typical brick and mortar stores in the US will only sell components have been evaluated by saving agency as part of their insurance policy. So if they start selling products that are faulty or now houses, that reduces their risk and liability. There’s aspects of quality assurance, so you there’s consistent evaluation that the construction of the transformer is, you know, meets the standard and therefore is consistent. And also there’s some aspects of marketability. But here are some, not all, specifically not because Russian safety agencies. So you have UL, which is Underwriters laboratory. That’s the most common in the US, yes. CSA, which is CSA Group, used to be the Canadian Standards Association. It’s more or less the Canadian version of URL. Think a lot of times you find Canadian companies that end up, you know, more or less relying on UL standards. You have TUV which is German agency and also VE. I’m not going to try to pronounce to pronounce these agency games. So there’s the VE is a little bit more throughout Europe, but it’s also during and then you have the CCC which is Chinas for you. So these are all safety agencies that they write and they write. Standards to help ensure that components built in the regions and are happy to be safe. There’s additional marking. This is what we were talking about Mike CE and UK CAA which is from Brexit. Basically they can’t mark them see that is a self certifying. So there’s no way additional kind of testing or verification that you’re meeting the specification. So these are the common. Standards that we deal with that rinco, I’m not going to kind of go in tomorrow. It’s it’s more or less based on end application. The the note here for everyone is that so you have these UL standards, which are straight USL standards, and then you have these IC dual standards. So basically all these safety agencies said this is too complex. I sell products all over the world. I wanna just go get one certification. So there’s been harmonization of safety standards across organizations. These ones are harmonizations. As a result, they’re no longer free for us to view because I can’t just go to URL, so. If you have a customer that needs the latest standard, you know there could be a several $100 fee just for us to view the standard, which is super fun to deal with. Charges that fee you all themselves. It it yeah, you you could go. It’s through what through you? Well, I can purchase the the specification. There’s just a straight URL file. I can download a copy at no charge. So far these building specs, insulation systems and everything, I can just download this spec. Don’t. And Barton slide from here. What does this mean for the sale? You all recognition there’s a fee involved. So basically we do a design, we work with the customer and interpret their safety standards and specification and you always going to or another say I use you well kind of the blanket just just out of habit right. Another safety agency is going to evaluate our documentation and our interpretation of the standard to help ensure that we have compliance. This is typically it, it varies I mean I would say. At budget about $10,000, you have something for the customer. Yes, that gets that gets passed on the customer. It’s gonna be a full NR, OK, yeah. And this can take 60 to 120 days. So this is this. You know it can’t be an afterthought. This also means too, and this is kind of the and this we covered this in in later, if you go to a customer and say, hey, you know, I have this competitor transformer here and I need it, I’m lying down and I need a copy of it. Can you make it? Sometimes we can do that, but we won’t be able to meet the safety agency requirements at that time. You can believe it or not, you can pay more to decrease that that time. You know, I think we’ve done it as soon as about 20 days for a project. We had a situation where they needed it. And it was a funny e-mail chain. It went when is this going to get done? When they get it done to how much will it cost to get done on this day? And then I add an e-mail almost immediately. So. You know this this is really a critical part of the design scope. You know failure to incorporate your offer standard can and will cause delays. You know in terms of the the fly back design that Matt just discussed if the transformer isn’t designed to meet the Creativision clearance and safety standards we’re going to go a little bit deeper in you know the customer may need to redesign their board. The costing may be out whacked in their redesign the board if different pair of. So they might have to actually tweak their their actual circuit design. It can really snowball into kind of a big problem, and that usually rears its ugly head at the end of the sale as opposed to the front of, you know, getting on top of it. All right, so there’s this. This terminology confuses me so I just kind of wanted to cover here. There’s UL listed versus UL recognized. UL listed is kind of more of an end croc. So when I go and I buy a power supply, this this one is this one uses. Yes, it’s UL listed on the on the component. So this is going to be typically end product, machinery, power adapters and so forth. Fuses will be listed because there will be end product that a customer will buy. You will recognize will be. The component itself is evaluated by you. Well that’s typically we’re Transformers fall. You know Transformers, if you have internal power supply that could be itself listed or I’m sorry, recognized as opposed to listing it is going inside another prop itself. Don’t. And typically, you know, sometimes we’ll get inductors that are recognized, but it’s typically should only be safety isolation devices. So if the component isn’t a barrier between safety, you we should be able to get around having. Evaluated by you all. Don’t. Within Transformers, you can evaluate and you can recognize the component itself. So you can have a UL file for this transformer year that has its construction characteristics, treatment and clearance outline. But more typically our customers will include that information in their next file. That’s you know, that’s I would say 90 years percent, 90, maybe 95% of our customers do it that way. It tends to be more cost effective. Uh, if the transformer is only used in one prod, so I make one power supply, I have one fly back, I have to pay the gangway. I’m going to just include the transformer aspects in that in that file. And for that rainfall will typically support the customer, provide some data sheets for material and construction as required to help move along. So this is the so you know in this case too the conformal pay all the yearly fees for their file maintenance. As well. Based on how they have their file written, it could lock Renco in, it could say this is renico model RL dash, blah blah blah or it could have the pure construction and in theory anyone would have would that means that construction would be acceptable for the file. So it really depends a lot on how the end customer works that for us it’s most beneficial for 19, we just our model number with some construction information. So are you all recognize component is the transformer itself is being evaluated for construction for use in a specific application based on a AU or IT specification. This is more common when the transformer is going to be used across different power supplies. So you know one of the ones I did was for well channeling, it’s a small isolation transformer and they basically said we want to use this transformer across all our. Power supplies and you know we want to get it so they have the components off recognized every time they do power supply they can plug that in and it’s just glanced over by their safety agency and you know it makes their. You know, it makes their process easier for each product iteration. So this cost, this is what cost month. This costs about $10,000. There’s also a yearly maintenance fee for us to maintain UL file. So, you know, in my life I’ve been instances where, you know, we don’t sell for multiple years. We may not maintain the file. And then the classroom will have to. You know, we’ll have to pay that again. You know, that’s some aspect that we have to be a little careful of. Yes, ma’am, which is the maintenance fee? $2.00 Gary has to pay it now. 2 + 515. You guys are primarily dealing with Northbrook. Where’s the? Your location, I mean, I whenever I do, it’s always in downstate who I usually work with. I mean you pretty much put an RFQ in and then they’ll assign your random engineer these days and they’re, I think they’re a little less like base than they used to be, OK. But you know the the biggest pro on this case is it locked in right? So in the example I cited with well channeling. You know they have no choice but to use ranco or. Have another. You know, another transformer house? Create a recognized product and they still have to open their file and do a paper change to add them. So it’s kind of a double UL fee you know to for for competent competition to see. Can they Kevin, will they design and submit to you all can they can they make the design have a couple of multiple options. First transformer manufacturers help. Customers listening or recognize file, they can, but if it’s a custom design and you know at the time of submission you’re the only one that could recognize the phone and they’re going to just likely put your model, they’re only gonna have your model number and your e-file for the transport. So it really that depends on where the engineer is in there process when they’re doing their paperwork. Now they could also qualify another vendor, pay their URL fees and then you know open their file and add them. So it’s not like a you know it’s it’s not a situation that they can’t overcome it just costs a lot of money and time. So you know and and on the engineering and then run code. These recognized transfers are supported with a lot more documentation, typically submit samples directly to URL and so forth. Now there’s kind of 1/3 option I didn’t really talk about where I didn’t really discuss where the customer can recognize our Transformers on their file as well. So they can there’s different options there too. They can recognize the instruction and put us as manufacturing location. So that’s a little bit more. It takes a lot of cooperation to get that done. So the question is what? What are they doing right? They’re not just. Taking money and keeping file paperwork. So they’re evaluating 2 critical aspects, the physical distance between the isolation barriers, which is commonly referred to as a creative nuance. So that little board that’s going around is acreage clearance board that Matt currently has. They’re also going to look at the properties of the insulating materials and how they interact with each other, which is known as life full insulation system. So creeping clearance, this is a pretty standard diagram. Creepage is going to be the distance around the doctors and Brad here, and clearance is going to be straight line distance through air. So they’re physical spacing between the doctors, you know, in a case where. You know there’s a, so in this case there’s a doctor, you’re going to take the nearest points because the conductor is going to be in the same potential, right? So it’s going to be the shortest distance between conductors. Any aspect of the doctor in terms of the transformer, what are the conductors? You have wire. The core is considered conductive. Your pins. Those are your your primary concerns there for creating these parents. So this is kind of something. I’m actually struggling with this with the I’m gonna stand extra job the end customer is really responsible for. Their end requirements, right, because they’re driven by the prime. So you go from the listed project to derive a set of standards and then based on their working voltage and outside that I had in the future, you’ll determine your creeping you clearance. But it’s really up to them to help determine this number. Renko will assist, we can read the files. Sometimes it costs money to read the files, but you know preparation clearance has to be maintained not just through the transform, but also through the board. So this is a good figure, kind of highlighting the general concerns of creeping clearance and transport. This is the standard horizontal mount for you have the the ease coming down the side. And we have I guess 5 main distances identified here. The first one is the distance between PIN to pin round. So one side is typically a primary one side of the seconder. That’s a very straightforward distance. It needs to be in compliance with the UL standard. We have the pin pitch between adjacent one, so between pin one and two that could come into play based upon the pin on the transformer. If you stand across the rail between you know if you have primary secondary windings on the same rail it’s very critical. We’re also comes into play too is there’s a big difference if you caught up in or you pull up. Right, because you caught a pin, you’re going to have your distance to a small conductor and then you reduce your your creeping appearance by minimal the the pin diagram. You have your shortest distance from PIN to core, so this is becomes very a little bit more complex so you can go up over. In this case it’s an extended creeping up over the extended treatment section. You got to look at your diagonals and every aspect of distance from the pin to the core because per the creepage figure where the conductors consider you gotta go conductor conductor, once it hits the core the you just simply go to the other nearest port in the core and add the distances. So because the core will, you know, consider to be insane voltage across the board. So between the wire breaks in the core this one will occasionally get you so the lead wire itself, magnet wires considered All in all intensive purposes, non isolated so you have that distance the core which can cause a problem. And distance from the winding window to the edge of the core as well. So where you end up going around the bottom and you touching the core, those are the little bit more I got you on that really creep up at the most inopportune times. So other external considerations. So you need to. Keep in mind that this is the core to any part of the chase the that the power supply that will be considered at a distance. You know the distance between the core and secondary side of components, so your diode capacitor, so within the transformer, what’s laid out nearby in the PCB and while creating clearance, which is it’s completely on the customer to review, right? I can’t review their boards for safety. Um, so. So you’re going to have two options for internal review. So we have to maintain this distance not just on the outside but on the inside of the one. The first one is using margin tape, which I’m on the board that man has and you might want, you could probably pass them around again just for this you can. This one’s kind of nice. It has a capped on film tape so you can kind of see the tape on it. So the tape is preventing the wire from it’s giving you an internal distance between layers. And then the other one is using triple insulated wire which is typically yellow or Gray based on the thermal class and that itself is considered to be reinforced. You can actually in some cases touch men where triple insulated wire it’s still have proper isolation. So this kind of goes to the same thing. Party tape is typically enameled magnet wire, standard magnet wire. It’s a little bit larger because you have to accommodate your loss in window due to the tape. Um, there’s gonna be at least three layers of tape between winding layers. Why do they say 3 layers? Because they want to mitigate the potential of a pinhole. So if you think about if you take like A roll of tape and you. Shoved a pin through it, it minimizes the chance of you lining up the pinhole multiple times. So it’s a it’s a 3 layers of protection you can have sleeping and it will also. Yeah also it’s good creep between like winning the core for triple and save wire. The triple-A wire must be UL recognized. And as we’ll talk a little bit later, it must be in our insulation systems. If it’s above Class A, they reduce the transformer size. And it also will allow you to do reduce layer tape. You as a result, though the distance is internal, tend to be so small you often need to have an extended rail to meet your creativity clearance requirements, because once you terminate the lead to the water, that solder joint is now a conductor in terms of you. So we have multiple creep adoptions as you guys be in the same board. I’m you know this is something that we carry around. I’ll probably need to respin it soonish, but it kind of goes to the different options. I think you can do a lot and a lot of them deal with cost too. So you got your margin tape option tends to be a little bit higher cost because of the labor for adding take. You have standard. Some different core mounting, so horizontal mount, vertical mount with extended creepage. We can do neat things with lead breakout. In some cases we’ll terminate to connector, so the customer just plugs in the connector on the secondary. Um, we’ll have preformed in hand, placed flying leads. Those, you know pros and cons. With them, if it’s preformed it can cause problems. You know you got to be careful on shipping that you’re not disrupting the leads. Umm. Yeah, the purpose of those perform the because obviously in Facebook, right? And the reason he’s going down there to get away from the board, right? Yes. The distance from the whining to the core, the very small space and where you cheered. Use that question to Maria. Small space. We’ve also had broad breakout boards too. Where? Well you might have a primary board and that secondary board and it’s located in like physically that in space like for some USD item. So you can terminate your secondary in a different plane to versus hitting your original mounting plane. You know it’s it’s a good option. The option I like even more is this one here on the board and basically we have the hand placed position. Tooled in the bobbin, which holds the the breakout and this case we wrap around, it’s wrapped around the capacitor nicely. So that was, you know, a custom design for the customer so that they. Could get the hand placed and their problem was to wrap around the capacity. It was hard to formally use appropriate so that we we did a little plastic tool there. It was pretty inexpensive. Was it with the USB? That was a USB one he had. All right. Do they want to make questions on creativity clearance? So electrical insulation systems. We we can’t just look at what goes in their Transformers a singular item, right? We have, you know obviously we have your hookup wire polyolefin orders all their tooling. What we have to do is look at combination materials at a certain temperature and what that does is it helps to ensure that. You know if the components get hot that they don’t think grade the insulating quality of of the other components. So this comes in flying on above Class A or Class B type Transformers 100. Things that get over 105 degrees Celsius start having to look at the interaction materials. So what are the materials and and transformer? We have a bombing. Yes. So we have our own installation system, yes. Little insulation. So, yeah, I know I’ll slide about, yeah. So you know what goes into building a typical ranco training? We have a bobbin, which is our school to hold the windings. You’ll have a core. Which is all intended purposes of the pure conductor. So this is our only non insulator and the color is a little bit off, but everything is blue except for that you have wire mult different types. So what is wire you have enameled magnet wire. Everyone understands what it what magnifier is correct. It’s the thin copper wire. It has typically more or less a urethane or a very thin coating on it. And the question regarding the doors, yes, if you were to use nickel single core, would that be considered a non conductor? You’d probably have to have conversations with you. I wouldn’t. I mean with the nice with you all is usually for enough money to evaluate quite a bit through, but I wouldn’t. So what Matt was basically there’s within fair rights, there’s nonconductive ferrites. So how do you convince you all and speculates now no longer a? Beacon doctrine and then. Not always doing this task. Alright, so while we have enameled magnet wire, it’s very thick. It’s it’s copper wire with a very thin overcoat. It’s very thin so that you can get a lot of wire into a bobbin. If you think about it, if you want you want to transfer, your key is to get turned in. And the more installation you have on the winding the less turns you can get in the bobbin and therefore it’s uh you know it becomes a problem. So regular and animal magnet wire considered basically functional isolation like we understand it provides isolation but in terms of safety it does, it’s just as good as the bear with you doctor. You have litz wire which is a weaving of multiple two doctors based bear in terms of well bear comfort. You have a triple, say wire, which is not that it’s going to be typically 3 extrusions over the water of various material. So it can be basically a Teflon FEP. There’s various different triple insulated Flemings, those ones are considered reinforced, so there’s three potential failure modes to protect the user. You know. The problem is those extrusions are typically 1 1/2 to 2 mil thick per extrusion. They’re adding quite a bit diameter to the main order which is goes against your build. We have fully insulated wire which is a newer magnet wire. It’s it’s gaining popularity. So it’s basically they call the 0 defect magnet wire. So it has seven or eight different passes of urethane or steam coding on it. In some cases that can be considered to be reinforced isolation. We have foil, so legitimately just copper foil sheets inside, non isolated. And your flat rectangular square magnet wire non isolated and your hookup wires which will be just a single extrusion. So based on. You know it’s interaction, it’s it’s gonna be as good as not. It’s not insulated. Variety of tapes. You have tape that goes in between layers, you tape that goes in between the same windy layers and also between different type of wine. So I might have take within my primary and might have taken a barrier between my primary and secondary. So those are kind of two separate functions. Even in the insulation system that can have two separate functions, one would be wrong, you don’t need another one needs to be taped. Varnishes so why do we varnish Transformers? Anyone know why we’ve arranged Transformers? So if you have a pinhole in a copper wire it’s outside it tends to Ross. So the varnish is a really a rust rust mitigator in in magnetics used for other things to help reduce audible noise. You know it can provide a little more robustness to the component. It does provide some isolation, although I will argue with people who use it as a sole. You know if it doesn’t pass before varnish, I don’t and varnish. Fixes it and still throw some red flags. You’ll have sleeping. So because the maintenance wire doesn’t have any insulation on it and well, when it breaks out you often have to sweep it with the. Usually it’s Teflon PTFE and then you might have epoxy. So, apologies, tricky. You know, if it’s holding on a core, like in this case here, you can usually argue that it’s mechanical support only and it goes through you all perfectly fine. If the capsulated, it’s typically needs to be in an electrical insulation system. And sometimes it’s still a little bit hard, right? Because technically there is a possibly touching and winding fear. Probably should be an electrical installation system. Because I don’t have any questions about materials. OK, so insulation systems and temperate. Umm. So Class A you can use just by then. You know all, you all recognize them materials and combine them to make a transformer. There’s not going to be typically an evaluation of electrical installation system. Class B and Class F are most common than right now, so they support triple enslaved water. The yellow wire typically means it’s leaving the Class B. If it’s the Gray wire, it’s typically class F and I use the word typical loose and you can get them in different colors. It’s it’s not a hard, fast rule. Once you get above that. You’re using margin tape and it’s a pain. This is a you know, if you’re doing the design and you need an insulation system, you know, we do a sample right over into the sample and say, hey, we need insulation system. I don’t, you know, 99 out of 100 times if we did the design, we’re fine. Not a big deal. Go to Class B. Class B doesn’t work. We change them magnet wire. Now with Class F everyone’s happy if you need to get above class F this is a major pain point. In design and cost and you really just don’t want to be here unless you’re doing like a downhole application where we came in saying this is gonna need, you know, a class and installation system, right? Kevin, what would be your typical, you know, application for more demanding down, downhill, hopefully just down the hall. I mean, you know, you think about it, this component is going to be that hot in a in a power supply, right. So there’s gonna be other governing specs that’s gonna prevent a customer from just you know, popping in 100 and 100 and 8200 degreez part into their circuit, right, because it will also affect their board and you know their, their, you know their PCB board. Increase and everything well. There’s major challenges. If you get above class F, there’s probably a redesign. Unless, again, you want in knowing you’re going to. So electrical installation systems. This is a. A little bit of a scam, but. So basically you have electrical systems. I mean I should start at the bottom. You have the the OB SY2, you’ll have a company dolls, they make varnish, they wanna sell varnish. So they went ahead and they paid you well, a bunch of money to test compatibility of different plastics and everything with their brands. Make sure they don’t break down these commonly varnish manufacturers trip once they wire manufacturers and plastic manufacturers have a set of insulation systems, they’ll evaluate tapes. Garnishes and everything together to make sure it’s kosher. What we have to do as magnetics manufactured, we have to adopt these systems. So more or less we pay ULA fee to say hey that Sumitomo plastic system we want to use that running pill. And as long as you need Tomo has available for adoption, we pay a fee and now we can use the system that has already been evaluated by URL to manufacture and ship Transformers. In addition to that fee for every site that manufacturers the component has to be on or bought it. We pay yearly fee for every manufacturing site that Renko and Standex has to build transforms. So all the ramco systems right now are and then we’ll talk about little bit later, they are able to be used across Standex sites and our China manufacturing sites. So you know there’s more moves from China to Mexico using the standard Mexico facility. In those cases, Mexico can use our insulation system already. It’s already set up because. So another thing to you can’t just use an OB SY2 or OBJ S2. Sorry I got mine. I already had my. Letters and numbers. Trying right there, but you can’t. So I can go online. I can view everyone’s insulation system, so I can view New England wire. They’re at APAC. I can view their installation system. I could design transform that uses everything on the installation system just like mine, but I can’t use it technically until I adopt it. So let’s come to play a little bit. Well, I think I I hope. OK yes I get I have a slide on it later. So let me talk about my rant there. So OK within the installation system there’s two major things. If you’re insulators and minors, major are gonna be between basically primary exactly brown. So those are going to be those ideas that if they fail there’s potential for shock and fire. And then you have mine. So that’s gonna be uh you’re tubing take that’s not between layers items that are less critical they fail. Not desired but not desirable but should not cause Satan concern. They’re more looking for just to prevent fires at this stage if there’s a failure it’s not going to prevent you know a dangerous situation that regards. Umm, you know they are. There’s two different sets of testing based on your insulator. The major ones will take like over a year to get qualified. Minor ones can take, you know, just months or two to two to six weeks. So just a couple weeks on long Dad. So what does this mean? Let’s say I I look at New England, where I actually don’t have any New England wire inflation system. I look at it and say this is great, I think I need an epoxy. So based on its purpose, I would have to do a sealed tube test, pay you all some money to test and evaluate, and I’ll get a test result to say I can add it to my implementation of the installation system. Yeah, so this is a. This this came into play a lot last year we had a major manufacturer delay on some magnet wire on some triple insulated wire which is a major insulator. And you know, we couldn’t just, there’s options, but you just can’t go ahead and use them without having the you all electrical installation system evaluation done. So. So the common pitfalls. The biggest problem is when we build the customer. Because the customer print will say especially if build to print saying here’s your bobbin, here’s your wire, here’s your varnish and needs me insulation system. A lot of a lot of those cases. We’re going to have to substitute something. You know should be form fit function to make the installation system. I mean there’s not or we could adopt with that cost you know several $1000, it doesn’t really benefit. You know the the, the No the real need there. And in some cases the customer may put Bob in triple there where varnish taste and they’re not even in an installation system yet. So that’s part of our our job when we’re getting it built to print, it’s not always as easy as just building to print, especially when they’re safety standards involved. How common is that, Kevin, when when a customer privilege concerning the rental? You know, doesn’t have adopted. I would say it’s very common and I, you know, I think it’s it’s very common that it’s not even in a system together. So you know you get challenges because everything’s regional. So you know if you get like a fair Bob and they’re actually injection molding Europe they’ll use very European classics right. If you get in the state to get kind of US plastics in China, you’re if you’re you’re usually it’s Japanese offshoots of plants. That’s right. So those are major like geographically there’s often incompatibility with materials. That parking capitulation encapsulation in the pain usually dance around it. I think when we dance around it, people are usually pretty good dancers, but it can come up. So this, this part here needs an installation system. Actually, I think we did picking up boxes in our installation system, didn’t we? And and installation systems not in and out. It’s in there. It’s in there. Yeah, it’s more of a. It should be a softer routine. It’s not really part of the constants normally, yeah, yeah. So our options would be they could put us as a manufacturer on their installation system. That’s an option they can put our site or we could work with them to adopt the installation system. He’s really the proper wedding. It really needs to be one of those two. But in this case, there’s an insulation system. Worst case, you’re in your hand, slap paying you all this money and the world will still turn right. Most situations are kind of like that you all provided. You’ve done your diligence to get up there. So what drove that? Please say you know material. So we have insulation systems for the given silicone potting material. And stuff wasn’t available during the pandemic. It’s something that the lead time is something absolutely ridiculous. So theoretically customer they had their own insulation system. And we we switched to their boxy then verified that all the other materials that we design, we’re also in their insulation system and that’s how we were able to move forward. Yeah. So I mean it’s again if you’re in insulation system together it’s you’re in a pretty good situation for recovery. There’s also marking requirements too and that that kind of falls apart as well and and and everyone’s implementation. So the other big pitfall is as I mentioned before, if you get 100 above 155 degrees Celsius and you’re not planning on it, it’s a bet you’re in for a bad time. It’s going to be a redesign, you have to probably grow the transformer. And bigger size relay out boards, it’s not a great situation. Done. Alright, so. OK, ways to resolve these pitfalls. You can adopt an insulation system. So you know you you had a customer who called out insulation system and build the print and you don’t have it and it all’s good you can adopt it. It’s about 6 grand. I’m using a rough numbers because URL changes every quote. You can substitute a material and notify the the customer. So this is a common thing. So I have a customer. So what I’m trying to articulate here is they have this transformer here and they have build a print, they call it a core. I don’t have to worry about cords, it’s a non insulator. They have a bobbin and they have magnet wire and they call out a Bob and then it’s not in my insulation system. My options are right adopt it or I can maybe retool the Bob and into different class that’s in our installation system that is. 4000 and again if I go, you know, I want overly focused on just kind of give me an order magnitude of these plots right? This is not to be. Forwarded to a customer or conveyed in a solid way. Just rough order cost, right? You know or you can look at adding the components to the existing installation system. Major take a year, miners take months, and your success has never been guaranteed in voting act. I don’t have calls for that. It’s uh, I think miners are probably about the same quality as tooling about engine makers are probably a little bit more than adopting a system. So it’s not something you want to kind of you know you’re talking about time money and there’s literally no guarantee. I don’t know how to engineer Angly assess if you know you if the combination is going to work. Alright, So what do we have at ranco? We have the following installation systems Class A. There is one required. We have 130 degree C system which is typically our R130 system. Within that we have 8 variations. They’re all R130, table one through 8. You don’t have to really worry about that yourself says. You know in in the application we have a 155 system, there’s probably about five or six. We do have a Class H, class N, and a class R I’ve never used those. My 14 years at run go going to be very application specific and you’re going to have to go into the design knowing that it’s getting hot. So when you have a customer and they go to Matt or Steve, preferably not me, and they say I need this new transformer design. Give me samples. I would say typically all the materials that we would be designing on would fall into our Class B installation system, if not our class F installation system. So, you know, that’s something you don’t really have to worry about if we’re doing the design. If we’re not doing the design, it’s built to print. That’s kind of, as I kind of reiterated several times, it can become more difficult. So the manufacturing identification also must be listed on UL file also seen as manufacturing facilities and our Chinese sites are on rank as well file. So we can move product between slide without beyond that. All right, then we have many questions. Is this you on the back of the list? Thank you. Much money that’s on their table. Yeah. And you guys, some of you guys have met Joe. Yeah, Ian and Ian Young there, so. Yeah, we have to respect that. I’m just taking a Sharpie and just just do it. Drop him off. Are the engineers that are designing the transformer generally very familiar with the UL requirements or is that get into their quality guide that it’s going to be the end it’s going to be engineering responsibility. So you know I have a version of this presentation that goes a little deeper from the engineers you know and this covers about everything you know the big thing is more well versed in in this. Yeah I mean should be finding your creativity clearance can be the hard thing and. There’s there’s different ways. I have some engineers who will say, well, what’s your ULIC spec? What’s your working well, you know, just drill down to what the creepy things would be, right? And I tend to throw up more. I personally put it more on the power supply designer because it’s ultimately their specification that has to be flowed down to me to design the transformer. I think it’s a little safer in regards to, you know, if I screw up with great new parents, we told me, uh, you know, it’s, it’s less of, you know, there’s less exposure now and ultimately we both need to hit it, right? Like if the board doesn’t create new clearance, it’s not gonna be no one selling anything. Alright, so I think it’s a check and balance with a review. Some engineers are going to be better at it than others. I mean it’s it’s just like any aspect now. And then one thing I didn’t mention like if it’s Mill Arrow, they don’t care about you all insulation systems, right, you know, so that’s kind of a completely different topic. Anything else? All right. Well, Mike said that was going to be boring and you’d all be asleep, so I appreciate that. Guys just a quick comment you all stuff so. It’s it’s very important that we know what we do all requirements are up front right. Because what happen is if you if you don’t know you’ve all requirements or you don’t know if there is you well requirements design A product when the customer comes back instead of ohh I need you well installation system where I need to meet these preventing clearance requirements. We’ve already sent them samples, they’ve already spun the board. Now you’ve got real issue right because you may be looking at a board spinning maybe looking at it. Boston bombing, you know, sometimes we’ve selected materials that are in different insulation systems and now you’ve got to go back and try to figure out, OK, So what material do I need to switch to get this to fall in line with one of our installation systems? Conversely, you can design something to an insulation system and then find out that one of the materials isn’t available, and then you’ve got to go back to find any other installation system. And then back failure, all the materials in the back sometimes, a lot of times actually that I found it’s harder to design with you well in mind than it is to actually do the electrical or mechanical design of the trains. So you well portion of it can actually be more difficult. We actually designed, so it’s very important that we know the requirements up front so that we can design something that isn’t going to be a problem in the future. What you saying? I’m sorry. Insulation system after the fact. This one is gonna work and then it goes back to the. All right, this contact as you well guy, it’s usually internal to find out what the guidelines are the exact. See. Cut and paste what I mean and applications are involved. You all requirements yourself, yeah, but you know, as I said though, if it’s Class A or the customer is doing it in their power supply, I might I might have a single URL record of it, right, you know? So that I mean there’s nothing, I would say probably 9090% of our parts go into URL and product. Product that’s evaluated at some point by UL and we have maybe. Safety and thank you. And we have maybe 20 discrete Transformers that are recognized and that’s the other thing to point out too we have obviously you will transform that our capital. Many times the customer is going to call you up. I’m desperate for this trace. They send, you know, they’re data sheet. The standard part by. For. Or signal or somebody else down there right tomorrow, so we may not have that one. Let’s just go right from there. 5 grand for. More so the the problem there’s difficult right like a switch mode transformer it it’s it doesn’t get a constant signal. We don’t really know even designing it what the waveform we’re really looking like across it. A 5060 Hertz can be evaluated in that we know we can plug it into the wall and it should give me output voltage and God knows what the end customer is going to do with that. So it tends to go through a little bit more of an evaluation to just ensure that it’s. It doesn’t have failure, right? And again, if the customer submitted just the component, not the whole system. And that component could be a building branch job, right? Donna, you well? Again, we just have to walk away. I’m getting a lot of prints in there since you will at the bottom. That’s going to be a whole bunch of money. Get us listed and wait six months to get it all done. Usually they’ll just take money from parts down. The buyer just doesn’t know. Thank you. There’s no worries. Just gonna throw this thing up and. Hi guys, I see you. It’s great time now, so. Obviously. Basically a couple of weeks. Very soon. OK. Yeah, it looks pretty good, doesn’t it? It’s a gap, right? You don’t really want it, right? One with the dog. He’s not so he’s OK, yeah. This tool. Flight and there’s like. Yeah, but. Gabriel. Yeah, yeah. Are you? Possible. Also. Thank you. Thanks. It makes sense. We’re gonna be easy. Something. I want you. From my. But they have. They have. That location. And I found out brochures. Approach for that. Yeah. That would be. Gary was. I’m about to break. Correct. Yeah, and we don’t know. Yep, no problem. Appreciate. Yeah. Mentioned. Don’t do it. Yes, Ron. I’m not going to. I think maybe. Black Friday. That. Talk about. Anywhere. Popular. 2. Arizona. Frank. Stop. Like this? Ohh I’d. Yeah, to me, if you guys stop now. On their end about the original. OK. Yeah, yeah. Dollars. Yeah, that was. Then one. China. OK. Let’s see. Yeah, you can. And that would be? OK. Different, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Quite. What? Yeah, maybe. And somebody asked me for a credit app and I’m like ohh move all this stuff in work every year. Please, Michael. Get her done, yeah. You don’t want to wait. 1000. From the. Years ago. Concern. Great. It’s like nothing. And then you say yes. Can I get the booking? Musical career. Terrible. So it’s. Or oppression. You know. They’re called, they’re called. Lowest Health Canada. Well, just. Memory. Around. Right. What? Sorry. These are nice. Get my dog. They get one of the. 2nd. No, I got. Yeah, well. That’s, that’s great. Holiday. Normally. Caribbean. We do use it, and I specifically. Thanks. Go. Talks about. Like thermal, performing groups, butoxy and philosophy. Like it’s because RTV can be tricky to. We also have. How are you going to keep you out being late? So you guys on the application I I found myself more than a few high voltage. OK. Scale. I didn’t know that. Yeah. What time? Yeah. And that. Which basically. Water. 11. Customers. I don’t know about price. Every time you think. 5. Yeah. Not so much. Expires. What’s next? It sucks. About three months. Yeah, certainly. But maybe there’s Sherman. That’s great. Yeah. Yeah. I haven’t spoken. Typically retain. Properties. This offers. They’ve got a number. You suck. The substrate that is touching, so therefore. Properties. Or somewhere. OK and say right. It’s not the easiest thing. Like 3232. I am. We didn’t have one. The big screen. Hey. Draw. That’s usually like. You guys are great. I don’t know what. It’s. Perfect. He is researching. That’s true again. Then we started. I know there was that is. They said they were trying to. Something. Alternative routes to. You know. Don’t even see. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. E-mail. I’m trying to talk. That sounds just like essentially this. Walk slower. Busy. You know what? There’s not back. They don’t have. If it. Well. Uh, so. I don’t know. Four people. Important. Sorry. Then you send it to me. I guess I never talk. Thank you. Yes. Care about. Yeah, he’s good. Yeah. 1. So 16. Video. Cancel. Circuits. You know, exactly. Back. Do you love me? Ohh the problem too. Everyone want different forms. Using. OK. Really. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. OK, what e-mail address did you send it to? At. Ohh I got I got it. You got my. I got it, man. People. Getting off. Yeah. Like. OK. Exactly. Ohh you you took a version I gave you Dan so that yours is a drop in there. Because you had the combined one, you you added slides to it. Quickly show me with slides different. I’ll make sure it’s good. That’s great. Good. Let’s see. I’ve got it online right now. I said where it is. This is what you just said. I forget what anybody else? There we go. Yeah. That’s what I changed. OK, that’s good. That’s good. Yeah. Do you want me to send you a text? And your team’s message? That’s great then. The shop. Everything needs to be out. Weird. I should have said that. Oh, that sounds so. So what should we do that like? Different party. Yeah, I did. Nothing. Yeah, making the sound. I’m not too worried about the them filling up. Yeah. Doing so. And they give us COVID. Like some, you know? And you know, like. Right. Just like a few weeks ago. Yeah. Ohh yeah. You don’t want me to? I see. It’s like. Language. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. Possibly. That you are. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Stuff in here, right? Yeah. Start new one. These are expensive. So like. 1200. Sure. Safe. Like, we got this guy. Public. Only. Only only. 60 people. Probably trying. It’s all over. So there’s been a last been option for tomorrow. We actually the factory is going to be available if you want to go to the factory. About an hour hour, 5 minutes from here. Don’t know what’s that over Rockledge and Frank manufacturing director is going to give a tour. So I know if you wanna coordinate with Brent, because I know he’s gone. How you going to get there? Whatever it is, what time you think you’ll be there so I can look, Frank. For anyone who wants to take the tour of the factory over there who haven’t been there. There could be a beneficial for you have not been there. What time starts at the factory? I’ll send you guys figure out what time you’re gonna arrive. Yeah? I mean if it’s it’s about an hour and a few minutes we’re wavering. So I don’t know like 9:00 o’clock should we say or don’t work 9:30? You’d rather go earlier as possible, right? So out of here, late be there at 9. OK, let’s do that. OK. Figure it out. So anybody wants to feel tour, we’ll we’ll get together with Mike and I and we’ll figure it out. Yep. Thank you. At. Yeah, I have a cartoon. We can take a couple of people. And how much? Rainbows. Message sending. You know. Other things. Start off. Morning. Morning. My name is Steve Wells. Like I said earlier, been working with Ranco for 11 years. This year came up on the production floor. Move my way up to tech working under Joe Long learned a lot under him. He’s he acted as a pretty good mentor for me. And I showed I had an affinity for this. So I’ve been an engineering properly for about 3 years now. I’m gonna talk to you today about specially magnetics and ITAR. It’s going to be loose structurally, like like the previous two presentations. You can interrupt and ask questions whenever you like. This is intended to be. You know, a brief conversation about these topics, we can go into them deeper to another time. This will open up. Some thought processes and ideas about these topics when you guys approach. Customers for design, work, etcetera. So especially magnetics. Why is it specialty? What makes it specialized? What’s the difference between that and custom? Well, there’s not much of a difference. Specialized magnetics are typically. You know very. Out of the norm design work, you know a lot of the stuff on these boards that were passed around earlier that’s like, you know, off the shelf catalog items that we that we, you know is our bread and butter we. Do quite a bit of that, but the other aspect of what we do and what Matt said earlier about custom work. Umm can be just modifying that those kind of designs gently or going kind of wild with it? In this way. We have ranked defined and customer defined. Parameters. That’s why I just mentioned about the. Off the shelf designs and the customer will come out with something totally different too. These are usually larger parts they have. They can have you know, numerous subassemblies like bobbins cases. And even terminal block stuff like that. And these are require some degree of tooling and sub sub assembly print control processes. They usually come to us with little or no documentation. Meaning here’s a part figured out. Umm. Sometimes we get lucky, sometimes we give us some parameters, but not always. Umm. And you know they’ll they’ll range from low power to medium to high power designs, you know. Right now I’m working on and. An air coil that’s like the size of your pinky nail. And I’ve worked on parts that are. Get big, you know, sizable small creep. Could you define low 80 low medium power in your world and in my world? Let’s see here, low power would be up to what, like 40 watts? Yeah, I mean 51. I mean within Ranco I would say we go from. 0 milliwatts to comfortably about a kilowatt. That’s. That’s you know our bulk of our business is 150 watts or less buybacks, but there’s a significant amount you know in the that range to the kilowatt range. Once it gets above a kilowatt, can we do it? Yes, it just becomes more respect and this is kind of what going into Steve presentation that’s more of a specialty for us where it’s going to be unique and you know lots of additional considerations. So these following slides are essentially some products that I’ve worked on, we’ve worked on together that are could be considered especially magnetics and I’ll go over why. This is from richer technologies. They’re out of New York. They’re division of Amtech. Dan knows them quite well. This is an ocular sensor. It’s essentially a I believe it’s in veterinary use. Yes. Cheap nylon rod and you’ve ever gotten that, you know, yeah, no, actually this is for veterinary the first, the first revision is a new product again rightly so. They went into veterinary first build up the business from the road they will be going into. I guess that’s a rule for human trials and it’s like that glaucoma puffer that. Yeah and you guys check the pressure, correct, correct. This was built to a customer specification. They had a. They had pretty good documentation on this one that that they had very tight mechanical tolerances and that was a big challenge for this part. We had a, we had a. A lot of conversations with production and how to wind the part, get it to operate properly, get fit. There’s a. Press leaving it goes over the bobbin housing. And it. It had a fit issue that we had to work through and it took some, took some doing but we figured it out also not easy to wind magnet wire on breast that’s correct and or aluminum any any hard substance like that that’s tooled you know I got the. Have it properly deburred and coated and you know for liability and insulation. Umm. This part, this opportunity, spawned a sister part that I think was the European variant. And. We we’ve been making it pretty consistently for two years now. This one here are all 12191. This is from LaBelle labs out of Ohio. They’re audio. A company they they they do a lot of. Leave underwater marine stuff. Sound stuff underwater. Uh, this is for A6 KB audio amp. This one was interesting. Uh, this this one initially came through. Matt became the the contact gave us very very loose specs and gave us a core cross-sectional area and give some amount of turns you generally wanted. And it was more or less a napkin drawing for being honest. And we went from there and I took took it and ran with it. We got course ran through like a. A brief first article of it on the production floor got it going. Lot of tape in this part, and there’s a there’s a reason for that. It has a pretty big, pretty tight capacitance spec for performance inside this guy’s amplifier. And he wanted me to keep it under a certain level. But if you go. If you go too heavy on the tape problems to lie on the tape was a problem, it’s going to be just right. You have to build it up between the the primary and secondary 1. We had to purchase a new winding shuttle to get this one going. This was pretty much at the limit of what we can do in the factory at this time. As far as Toroids go, this thing’s about probably 6 inches across. And it just barely fit what we were capable of speaking China or here. I made that here. The production made here as well, that’s right. Both of these programs. Both boards. Yes, change and changing and so forth, I know you think. I’ve had many conversations with the engineer. He’s very happy with the work we gave him. He it’s funny, as we kept going, he kept coughing up more and more specifications. Luckily we were falling into them. But we had a we had a good back and forth and there been a couple changes along the way, but he’s happy so far. This part’s been going on for about a year now. And. See. It’s not the best picture. That was our stock photo and from QC, he’s coming back with more designs that yes, he is. Yeah, he’s talking to us. Are all 12279, so this one is actually. Part of a a greater series of verse engineered pulse Transformers that Max out the opportunity from Phoenix induction in Michigan. This started. This started more or less our relationship with Phoenix induction. These are pulse Transformers for induction air heaters. They’re very large. Um, heater units that. They’re, they’re impressive. I saw them recently. And. He uses a lot of these pulse Transformers on boards you know, and and there are various. You know variants of these Transformers and this led to a lot of part numbers. Release gave us a lot of specs gave us. I think do we have, I don’t know if reverse engineered this one. I think it was just. This is what it is. What’s it was? Let’s make it work. Collaborative, yeah. Yeah. And this is another one where you have a pretty good relationship with the engineer in charge on this project. Have a lot of conversations with him. They’re and again, they’re happy with what we’ve given them. This was essentially a good US out of trouble. These are old parts that no one’s making anymore. We just need a direct cross. You know, and they provide the PCB for us to work off of, which is nice. This part went pretty, pretty smooth. Engineer, engineer actually sent us the parts and with the Standex acquisition and the folks up in Cincinnati, they have a pretty nice qualification. So I was able to send the parts up. No, I actually, I think I visited Standex in Cincinnati at that time and maybe we were able to X-ray. X-ray in the parts to what is that what was going on and that’s how we were able to get the initial design. Subsequent designs after that were just small, small changes to the to the to the first one we did, we did capabilities, capabilities in Florida, but again Standex acquisition. To be able to offer that the biggest change between all of the separate part numbers would be the PCB, which dictates the shape of the case that it’s housed in, and those housed cases are 3D printed cases, at least right now. They can, and I think some have been told not all of them, but some have. But they, you know, the customer supplied us in 3D printed cases and said hey, fit this in this package and design based on that. So we did. And, you know, they’re all very similarly shaped. But I mean, a picture doesn’t show you too much about scale, but that part’s probably about gay big. Are all 12330 for matrix railways out of New York. This was a recent one. This was a I got a I got a phone call at my office one day from receptionist about a gentleman who wanted to talk about and magnetics opportunity. He he was lying down essentially and had this solenoid and needed he needed it replaced instead of a. This is a company that works with the. Yeah, New York transit, right? And it it operates a part of the braking system. And it’s a triggering coil essentially to trigger their break. You talked to me? And this one was a very quick turn around for us. We told you the problem. You know, they’re, they’re failing in the field, they’re falling apart, they’re old. You’ve been around for a long time and use. Uh, he he wanted some reliability update to it. It wasn’t terribly concerned about cost. You know, something sensible. Obviously when they say that, then you know they’re like, come on, yeah. As long as you can, but but you know if you want improvements to the design, you have to. Cough up a little bit. So the the improvements I made to this one was this was originally just a pure bondable wire round coil there are. 50,000 turns on this part. Something like that, a very fine gauge wire, and it’s just built up, built up, built up, built up. It’s probably about, you know, 3 inches tall roughly, and probably about. Of probably the same amount in diameter. It’s a fairly. Fairly large piece and it’s it’s all just wire as far as we just concerned. So when you told me it was bondable wire, the first thing went through my mind was we let’s get away from car to manufacture. It’s open for ease of damage, you know, even though it’s it’s it’s mummy wrapped in tape to help preserve it from the elements. You know, it’s not the best. I don’t like working with it. And so to get away from the bondable wire which you, you can apply a current or some sort of. Solvent to melt the enamel on the wire to essentially make it 11 solid piece. To get around that, I decided to tool about. So I told Robin. And through a regular, you know, heavy Poly wire on top. Same amount of terms or at least as close as possible. I got a working prototype. And I told them, I told my contact within the company, he calls back and he’s like, hey, I want to send you the mechanism of this goes in. So he sent me. Um, the triggering mechanism that the solenoid sits in for. He wanted me to test it for fit, and he kind of wanted to see it in action, see if we were hitting the mark form. So you have some voltage specs and. And you just want to make sure we were doing it right. So I got a little video here so I can get the word. What’s to note here? Set up a whole lot to look at here, just the voltage in our hookup. There’s coil. This is what you’re going to be looking at. And this is going to trigger once, once it’s activated, it’s going to, it’s going to be like a little hammer head. It’s going to pop down. It’s very brief. Yep. We are checking the voltage, make sure we’re good. That was our first pass. So you got a tool box and see the flanges there. Got the tape installing the first first start tournament, the whole coil. And that’s just the negative. Coil sent that to him. He sent it up the chain to his guys. They liked it a lot. And fit it, fit it fit that so. I’m just interesting. How did the guy, you said he called you, he did. How did he get Renko’s name? He was based out of Florida. So he he had heard of us. I think he was desperate. He was calling anybody who made coils and and honestly we don’t do a whole lot of solenoidal design work, you know, but I had a pretty, pretty good idea of what to do for him based on his problem. Luckily it worked out. And this one, this one. Like I said, this was a fast turn around on this one. We I had a working prototype in a couple of days. We verified it probably within the week. And sent him samples that following week. And then we got a PO pretty soon after, you know. Jim customer actually sells to the New York City Transit Authority maintenance insurance. You went backwards, yeah. This was another like. You know. No one’s making this anymore. We need to repair this. We need to refurbish, but we want the same thing. The operation right there laying down. Our breaks important in trains I guess. Something you can do. Not anymore. Insulting. He was. I think he was a technician. He was somebody who worked on the brakes themselves. He knew about the product. I don’t, I don’t believe he was an engineer. He could be, but he he, he was working very closely with them. He knew the product pretty well because he was the guy primarily topped it. It’s now with engineers working from home. It’s probably in Florida working for a guy in Seattle who’s supplying a product from New York. There’s a lot of that. And I think that’s going to be the case going forward, I think so. This one here, this is a this is a part number very well. This is an RJ1667 from Zel technologies out of Central Florida. This is actually a. A flare igniter. It’s a. Basically it looks like a. Looks like a camera film holster. Those old canisters you pulled filming. It’s about the same size too. And the way this works is these there’s there’s three of these parts per board, and there’s. Numerous boards per cake of flares, and these are put in for training flares for military exercises or any any institution that requires signal flare, flare. No, it’s it’s it’s a cake. It’s like a it’s a platform on the ground and they’ll they’ll, they’re used to ignite the player signals there. It’s a pretty cool application. So this this one. This is a very high voltage part, 15 KV part. This was this was initially a reverse engineer. This was a. If I recall, see I wasn’t on the front end of this one because this was very early in my career. I was working on the floor when the engineer who got this opportunity. I was working on it and he had worked up a testing scenario that I’ll go into in a second, but. As I recall, they were having breakdowns from the material within, so you know the high voltage. Potential between the primary and the secondary part. It was burning straight through their Bob and we need to retool their Bob and need to restructure it. Reinforce some of the I I don’t have a picture of the bobbin inside, but it’s it’s a multi section. I think it’s like 15 or so sections to wind this wire. Very fine gauge wire and lots of turns, which is usually indicative of high voltage. Umm. And they wanted to improve the design, obviously, because there’s just failed. And. The engineer working on it. This is like one of the first specialty jobs I was testing when I was working on the floor. He worked up a I wish I had pictures of it because it’d be funny to show. But he worked up a. A A test set up a deck where it had all the igniter coral boards. And you could plug this thing in, hook it into the board. And then hook it up to a DC power supply. And the idea was you could see this metal contact plate here. Access your. Your primary and when you pull this lid down on this box, imagine like a PVC or a a plexiglass box I should say. Which you can see all the parts inside because it’s clear. And then you pull this lid down and had new because the volume of these parts was. It was quite a few of these in the beginning because they were going through them very fast. You wanted to get as many tests as possible, but the idea was you put it down, you activate the pulse and it would signal on top of this plate and you you would see the arcing between the diode and the plate. And it was. Kind of dangerous to be honest. It was a little hairy. This parts bit me a couple times. It’ll definitely make sure you’re awake. We we got away from that weird box design and went to something a bit more simple where he just had a it’s more open, so it’s actually a little bit more dangerous, but. Now. I’m actually in charge of training people when they test this part because I know it so well. Like, don’t touch this. When you do that. That’s like pretty much all I say. And make sure it’s done, you know, because you can hear it. It’s, it’s a big, it’s a big strong arm. Umm. But this? I cut my teeth on this. This is like, probably honestly, it’s probably the first specialty design part I worked on. And. We they consistently ordered for the at least past 10 years. Is it the their complex in? Who were they? Just outside of Orlando here, they’re close by. OK. So that serves us a little bit of a segue into the talk about ITAR. So this is going to be somewhat brief. I wouldn’t even know what I thought. OK. Well, get there. ITAR. ITAR Rinko has been formally ITAR certified since 2014 since for international traffic in arms regulations, ER is export administration regulations. And you know these sort of these sort of opportunities come from middle Arrow and other commercial and military focus. Companies that will work on, you know, various commercial and military grade parts that anchor components, you know, big and small, all shapes, all sizes. All applications but it’s designated. Export control. Does so those parts have to be made in the US, is that correct? Yes. Now sometimes you can get a license. We have a, we have licenses for Standex Corporation, for our Mexico facility for the F35. So we have special relations in place. It’s a process to get them in place, correct. We do. We do have that manufacturing that we’re actually doing right now for that. Yes and it’s it’s not a blanket like you can now do it in Mexico. It’s it’s it’s that specific site, yes. So there are a lot of controls about them, yes, was hesitant because there’s a lot of hairy technicality about that. They have to be certified, they have to be, it has to be very public and and known and and they have to go through a lot of. And the button files and sorry. Of the eye for drawings and things of that nature. We have a controlled server where these are stored on the US citizens are able to grab that information. You have to go through very a lot of processes to be able to grab that information out of our IR folder or have access to it. In order to be able to work on it or to manufacture it, just see the drawings and stuff. So we have this product in place and we have them in. In Florida, yeah. So I I think for the sake of, you know, this audience and I, our opportunity brought into ranco. It would be everyone should plan for Florida calls. So I Tom. What’s the difference between ITAR and ER, ITAR is really the simple answer is defense related. All the fun stuff. Guns, ordinance, armaments. Weapon systems. Pretty much anything that could be considered a weapon system. Goes through, I talk ER is the commercial end of it. Computers, propulsion systems, you know? Yeah, general technology, software, things like that. But they work together. They they’re two sides of the same coin. They protect national security of the United States for preventing foreign persons from acquiring this data. What they consider a foreign person is noted. Umm. By general background and there’s there’s rules to that. Uh. So I tarney ER process the same way within our company. If it says one, it’s treated the same, it doesn’t matter. And this generally is going to go into with your purposes is. Identifying what it is up front. Generally you guys are going to know if you’re going to walk into a company that does ITAR and you’re going to have that on the front of your your mind. But sometimes you may not. There may be a whole new opportunity and you just have to identify it. They usually make it pretty obvious, but I’ve seen scenarios where they don’t, but they’ll just hand you a drawing. You guys didn’t even talk about it and you you see it’s export control or ER or ITAR or what have you. And you should certainly clarify that anytime you see it. So export control what, what? What does that mean? We’re controlling technical data and where it goes and who has eyes on it and when. This includes all drawings, photos, pictures. And all the way down to sub assemblies if it’s a custom design part for. Or something. If it’s a custom design for a custom part, it’s going to be considered. ITAR and controlled under ITAR. Um, talk about that. Especially design materials. So this. You know I I mentioned how custom a custom sub assembly would be. An example of something like a. Uh, like a terminal board, you know, something like that where you’d have, you’d have something that isn’t going to be off the show, you’re not going to find it laying around in a catalog. You’re not going to get it off Granger. This is something designed for this part and has to be a very specific way. There’s usually controlled drawings you’re going to find. Generally no shortage of documentation when it comes to ITAR, with some exception I have. I have some stories about that, but. Umm. The you might ask. OK, so if it’s ITAR. Where can I buy some of this material? Where can you source some of this material well? Hardware screws, nuts, bolts. Um and even wire are not generally considered. ITAR control if it’s on this print. Let’s say this print calls out #28. MW 35200 degree Cy. That does not mean that wire is now considered ITAR. It is outside of that realm. It’s it’s it’s not a. Specially designed material for this component. It does not need to be treated in such a way, so you can source that in. Same thing with. Again, screws, nuts and bolts. There is some debate about that. As far as like the type of screw, or how custom that screw is, or what that screw purpose is, but generally. Um, that’s not really what they’re concerned. Let’s see. Regular catalog standard parts are not aytar controlled. So we don’t have any IR parts in our catalog. You know some it’s just kind of trying to elaborate on the perils. So transformer bobbins, if it’s like we can use China bobbins on commercial off the shelf Bob and that can be used now if you do modifications to the bottoms make it no longer catalog standard, it would then fall under control, that’s correct. So you can use. If it hasn’t come, if you want material has commercial purpose outside the eye your product, you’re able to source it through your speaker source methods. You may have other controls that you know that need to be in place so you can make sure that you have your the proper certs and you know your your other components right, but you’re able to use costs, materials, individual parties. It becomes tricky when you have the tool or something you know you can no longer. Low cost reading tooler there’s a short list of domestic cooler for plastics. Leverage. How do you guys communicate internally so if we get night or draw and you want specifically sent to a specific website loaded on a? Is that typically server password? Yeah, so typically the customer would provide rinco directly the file through a controlled so. We rely on the customer numbers, usually the customers FTP server. Now we have to send it to our documents. We do have the spandex in the paint. They usually don’t password control. Yeah, it’s usually crypt in some way, or there’s a portal that will pull it from on there and. I mean, you shouldn’t just be emailing my card on you. Don’t do that. I definitely received. Yep. It’s. As Sam pointed out, we do have an ITAR documentation patrol site. All of our documentation is kept isolated on its own server pack. The. On each of our prints. We have this generalized marking on every page of our print, no matter what. Stating that it’s not turn 48 are controlled. So internally we’re going to know pretty right away just looking at a page if it’s ITAR control and and most drawings you’re going to see from. From it should be all drawings that you are going to see from customers should have some variation of this on their on their drums. So. Uh, let’s see. ITAR components, we’re going to say, how do we want to talk about this? Yes, 9102 FBI so this will. I I foresee, but the sand, yeah. It’s alright. So we need to talk about CFC certificates of compliance. When when we build a part, it’ll usually go through an S 9102 FAI and it will be certified within and sent to the customer for their certification records as well. When it comes to ITAR. That will be something Kevin is going to fill in right now. The idea is it’s it’s not just one thing, alright, there’s different levels in the eye car and you have to be registered, but these customers will have typical on their points. So for example, there’s CMMC compliance produced from this, that’s how we store files from one server and that’s governed by another aspect. Most Middle Arrow customers would require first article inspection for as 9102 which means. You have to get certificates of compliance while you’re wrong. That means that school water that’s been sitting in the back of Ranco since 1980 can’t be used on the product. We’re gonna have to buy new wires in some cases, like GE requires certs from the manufacturer. The wire, they don’t take this key service. So kind of the gist of these. This page is. This just costs a lot more for us to maintain these products and to quote these products and it’s just a completely different support structure, you know, to do this type of business. Welson. And like you said, the cost impact is is dictated by. You know when we when we quote something ITAR, there will be a price difference between the same part ITAR or not. This comes down to, you know, document controlling, material sourcing, high end testing. You know that some parts are going to require abnormal or out of the ordinary type of testing that requires specialized equipment. Sometimes we have to purchase that equipment, sometimes that needs to be reflected in the clothes. And this is stuff we need to explore when we’re sorting through these opportunities. Umm. And FYI, are typically broken out as a separate line item we charge for AI. Because we have to retain the documentation for pump teen years. So five years from now somebody comes back and you never even know what what needs to look at that document wants to see what what what transpired during that FBI. And they’re looking at just let’s take for example the Scrooge, the plating on the screw and the type of metal that is used. It’s all detailed there. So there is a charge for it. And we owe all those records. That’s right. Uh, so. This slide is essentially. Part of a part of a journey that we had with the customer that. Came into our front, literally our front door. He had, he had. He had a part that he needed, baby. No one was willing to make it. And he works for a. Umm. A telecom company. That refurbishes radar units for the military. And he brought it in. No one wanted to touch it except my mentor Joe. He was interested in it. And he he took that part. He reversed engineered it. He figured out there was zero documentation. And we essentially made it and this started a a pretty long relationship with this company that spawned numerous part numbers that I was involved with that I helped Joe verse engineer and still persist to this day. We just shipped them more parts as as of like 2 weeks ago. Umm. And. This led to the biggest drawings in Rincon history. This led to the biggest 1.1 piece PO in the company’s history. How much was that piece? Wasn’t it 28,000? Yeah, so how how big was your core? On a core it was a. It was a glued together ferrite blocks that were roughly 2. Two by three inch in size and they were glued together roughly like 18 inches high and probably stacked about that probably 4 inches deep, 4 inches deep. And yeah, that was a gigantic step up and burn wound with copper foil. Big current, lots of terms, lots of tooling. It was. It was a a challenge, I’ll say, to get that one done, but it was cool. It was a nice feather and feather in our hands. Umm, and it pushed us to grow. We, we grew from this relationship with this customer and we refined a lot of our processes during this process. So. I’m not going to sit here and tell you guys how do you job, but. This is mostly. In regards to how how we should handle ITAR tunities? Qualified the customer, is it considered ITAR or export control? The verbiage changes from place to place, but. They they should. They should know what that means immediately. Um, identified the the statement on the drawing. Know who you’re walking into? And know your jurisdictions. Or what your itower ER parts will fall under. And and Dan’s going to talk a little bit about DoD. I got 35 slides for the last part of the day before you guys drink. Very fun goodness. These are some of the companies we work with that give us it’s our opportunities. Some of them are pretty obvious ones. You got Collins, Parker, Hannifin, TS is actually the company I mentioned about the walk in opportunity. And the project systems which Banbury and Matt are very familiar with. It’s in here, you know. Since I cannot show you any ITAR parts, I decided to put a photo of a TA66 maser cannon from Godzilla. It’s a fictional vehicle, but I imagine if it was real, our parts would be. Saving the world? Sure. Let’s see here. So. It, it, it, it’s more or less the same for qualification and opportunity. Seeking when? When you’re dealing with ITAR or not. One of the EU is an ITAR, not? You know how does our 20%, so that’s something else we need to talk about presently. ITAR samples are not a thing that Renko does. We’re not structured internally for the document control. We cannot maintain compliance of ITAR within our sample department at this time. So we do not offer samples. We would typically take a small run PO. And. Qualify that PO there and that leads into part of some of the challenges that we deal with the guitar is we will have to. Work. More diligently to. Iron out any sort of design issues that would come up from an ITAR opportunity. That the sample department would usually afford us the the help with in in regards to that sometimes when you when you you know typical process which we’re going to talk about here. The traditional. ITAR, excuse me, traditional Renko mantra when it comes to, you know, how we deal with normal parts, we’ll call it non ITAR parts. It’s turn and burn. Get it going, get it running. Iron out. Let’s let’s figure it out. So this is kind of equates to making a print source material. And whatever other drawings and in situations need to be made through engineering. This usually will take one work day. It’s it’s a pretty quick process on the engineering side. From there, documentation goes through the sample process where goes downstairs sample worker build parts of the print. He or she will come back to us and give us feedback on the design. If there is any or any hiccups, any issues, we’ll iron it out. And well, sometimes it requires remaking the whole sample. You never know, sometimes problems happen. But this is when you figure that out. So Sam gets qualified. He was placed for his released parts, often chamber. It comes to ITAR opportunities and specially magnetics in general. These are projects. These take much more time, much more effort, much more focused to get these right on the first run. They have, as I mentioned earlier. Lots of tooling and sub assembly. Some of it can be purely advanced. You got to know your GD and T you gotta know what you’re looking at. You have to have to really get to the bottom of what you’re what you’re what you’re exploring. As I mentioned earlier as well, it has advanced testing, it can have advanced testing parameters, you know. Frequency response tests and and. Laying low testing. Shock and buy thermal shock tons. Tons of extra testing that isn’t in normal non ITAR parts. Uh, let’s see here. Material sourcing, as Kevin mentioned earlier, CFC’s got to make sure we’re not using the wire that’s off our shelf that’s been sitting there. It’s got cobwebs. Detailed print development. So. This, this one I’m a stickler on I I, you know. To me, you can’t. There’s there’s there’s no limit to how detailed you can be on these prints. You. You need to spell out what needs to happen when this part gets made. You have to. You have to put your you have to put yourself in the shoes of who’s making it. And it’s going to be US based and I’m, you know, coming up from the production floor. I know how we operate, I know how that, I know how those people think. I was one of those people. So when you, when you put things into terms, that’s going to help that. Succeed. You’re, you’re, you’re going to get through this low run PO, which is essentially going to act as your sample. It isn’t free. It is a PO. It’s going to cost money, it’s going to cost. It’s going to take time. It’s going to take weeks or even months to get this project off the ground. Depending on your issues. You know this? The biggest thing is that they have to be well qualified opportunities for us to consider them, right. I mean that’s the point of this, you know. And nine from they if we if every. Every group brought in one of these projects. You know, at the same time we have about three years of engineering and we wouldn’t get kind of this stuff out the door too. So there’s a balance on and just work with your biz manager, you got to really make sure that it makes sense for you know for the organization be working on that. We uniquely have certain things we can determine. We need the pricing expectations and there are other expectations before we spend a lot of time doing engineering. Especially for a non established custom. What do you do when military customer comes in and wants to use your catalog item? They would have to be spec this comment. OK. So if they request it to be ITAR compliant, it’s not I think it’s an off the shelf park it right now if they want to modify it, right. So we have so we have a 1256 strong boards, some of those longer leads on there. We have a version in our catalog that’s been tested built truck 27. So they that part can be used by a metal arrow customer off the shelf and it’s perfectly fine. We do have a customer who recently modified it. And they’re part is now an icon, but I can still use all my sources of that catalog standard because they’re used in a cop’s farm. I didn’t have to resource, you know, the terminals and the and the Fr for the work to be around. You know you know it’s. So that’s kind of the answer there is if it’s, if it’s costs, it’s it’s by definition that I promise it’s, it’s the commercially available. You can Google search and get the spec right. That’s also a good definition of the custom components. If I develop that part for specific customer and it was not in our catalog already, all the raw materials would then be controlled by IR and it would be probably a lot more of an expensive component. Drive towards typically around things that go bad or deliver things that go Bang Bang systems. An awful lot of other opportunity after that’s not associated with that that wouldn’t have to be identified as those would be a R controlled and yet you have you know there’s there’s there’s a lot of costs for supporting these opportunities and you know in the system. So if we do have in place that right go and Standex both independently but they’re they’re in place but it’s also a huge time cost of engineering. So that that’s the main thing it’s just to make sure that we are you know. Spending our resources wisely and thinking right and working on the right opinion and that’s more or less what this last slide dictates. You know, we, we this, this is the, the, the, the engineering challenge, the company challenge of dealing with specialty magnets and ITAR parts. To you know that require a bit more focus and handling to get the opportunities off and running, qualified and shipped. Than usual. Takes money, takes time, takes effort. But. They have good chaos. Yeah, we make, we’ve had a lot of good relationships with with some of our ITAR vendors and our, you know, customers that we work with ITAR. And. They’re pretty happy when we ship something. Something that works pretty pretty pretty well for them, especially when they didn’t give us much documentation to work with. That’s all I got. Thank you. Any questions? Question for you, Steve. What’s up Steve and for the rest of the engineer chiming in. So when you’re going through the specialties, they specialize designs, common bullet statement you have on your slide is good relationship with engineering and good personal history, which has led to PO’s and a lot more opportunities, which I’m sure we can all appreciate very. So for that that piece. What defines a good relationship with the engineers to give them and how do you using? Putting engineers in front of other engineers, we have to have a good open communication with each other. And speaker minds now hold cards close to her chest and, and, you know, in my experience, that’s a very easy thing to do. But it doesn’t always come across as organically as it could. You know, let’s, let’s put these engineers in the same room and let’s talk. Let’s work it out and it’s great to have a an engineer contact so close to the to the opportunity that we’re working on. To bounce ideas off of, to make sure we’re in the right direction, we’re hitting what they want us to hit. That’s what I was getting on. I think it’s knows it’s magnetics designer, we’re subject matter, right. So building that relationship with the customers on the news that the other most important, right, the test of that is after you work with an engineer on a particular part, right, is that engineer going to call you up? They’re not. And I think that’s how you know when you have any relationship established, they respect you as a subject matter expert. They’ve got a new design coming in. They’re coming into Renko F80 or Renco in general standards. And that’s a tough goal of mine personally, and I want to build these relationships so we can you can Remember Me next time when he has an issue. More opportunities? And the other side of the coin, let’s create a poor relationship where we’ve lost opportunities where we missed that. I think in you know the these type of opportunities, anything that is you know deep engineering that may or may not be ICAR, if there isn’t direct engineering engagement that’s you know we we preferably want Franklin engineer speaking with customer engineers, right. But the very least we don’t have an engineer default to it, it’s going to be difficult. So you know. This is something that Sam knows well, right? Yeah. You know if you get a print and you’re building out part that the print was issued in the 80s, how many times can you go through in a 91 or two FBI with your accent? And they answer that basically no materials are obsolete. There’s going to be exceptions maybe we might not be able to get the test equipment that was called out. You know maybe you’re all Genrad Bridge is out of Commission that called out. So if you don’t have an engineering engage or available to you know to work the project through it’s just not going to go through especially when you know and same with specially I mean in the break example see the technical buying on the get go and that’s why the. Project was really successful. Now it was just a a purchasing person talk with no technical background, right? It just there’s just no path forward. Right. And you know, it started with two engineers talking to each other and then I got my salesperson involved and got the ball running organically that way. I mean I don’t want to say that it has to come from an engineer, but there’s no engineering resources like for you to ask questions on these type of projects. It’s probably you know it’s going to be difficult approach. And then finally for ITAR opportunities is usually quite. It can be quite strict. It can also be quite loose sometimes these people are very proactive about what they’re sourcing and when they will, they will. Give you a a wide berth to work with because they understand that there’s a lot of technicality and a lot of knowledge needs to go into making an establishing the ability to make these payments. Are you guys done in the art car design with customers? Outside of these. 30. Now you got from. We decided we didn’t well it’s it’s it’s like so you know we we could talk about because. That’s OK. But like the, the, the stuff we did up in Jacksonville, how long did how long has that been going on? Seven years, seven years? We quoted 4 parts and how many are we in product? I mean, we’ve quoted more than four, but the first page of four parts, how many are we production on right now? No open orders. But we did have one part of the product. Yes, we do. Yes, he’s over. And so you guys, yeah, yeah. And in that case, how many times did we go? We went and visited for probably 6 times at least. We do that. And they came to visit us about three or four times. You take your personnel, so they’re kind of giving personnel. Yeah. You were rewarded, yeah. So from a costing perspective, right military parts and aerospace parts are more expensive, not because necessarily the manufacturing of the people is harder than the right differences that you take. You take this $3 transform and what makes it a 60 or $100 transfer. Fact that all the engineering time that goes into it quality departments time doing the FAIS and all that and also the testing right. So the testing the documentation that goes along with the testing. So you’re not just you’re not just manufacturing these parts testing inductions and VCR and shipping it out the door you’re reading withholding that information which is something that the cost of your argument with all the additional cafe I paperwork that goes along with that. So it’s not that the transformer is anymore less expensive to make, it’s all the paperwork and engineering time that goes into it, which is what drives up falls. Right. So when aerospace customer comes in and says I have all these requirements and oh by the way I want it for $3, you know, that’s a big red flag right there to say that it’s not going to happen. You know, we’ll pass on. And just, you know, getting into design into if you’re doing the design from the ground up. And it’s kind of more of these simple fly back if the application going to be military aerospace you know that needs to be known in design and just like the UL aspect. So for the most part they don’t care about you well but they’re going to be other reorganization and reliability concerns that have to be put in the design that if you know our you know aren’t accommodated for it can it can be problematic for the launch you know if it’s if it’s going into space commercial space. Not be governed by ICAR or or most export control regulations, but it’s still going to have to hit like Mills Mill Prep 27 and no standard 91 destiny. So those parts would you know would fall into some of the similar. As Matt said, the logic and empty tested were also the materials that we’re using to build and design are going to be different. Kevin, do we shy away from many of those applications that are no mission? Think within Renko when the scanex or we should be working on it. I I don’t you know there’s there’s no doubt about that. We just have to understand that you know, it’s a long term project investment. You know that the cost we need we cost segmentation and time expectations including testing. And we really need to have engineering and engineering buying at the end customer. So I, I, I don’t think I’ve seen a single military aerospace or or even deep specialty design that we won that came from a purchasing procurements person without having an engineer assigned to them. Yeah, it’s always engineer, engineer, relationship, somebody betting it. You always have somebody inside being your dance, Michael or whoever as the focal point, pushing the engineers, making sure they have the interactions there in order to proceed. It isn’t one person that always does it. It’s joint. It’s really a joint teaming effort. One thing I want to emphasize is, hey, there’s a lot of times that Ringo won’t be able to go after mirror. Yeah, like the Lockheed or Raytheon. It’ll be reviewed. Cincinnati will review it up there and say, yeah, it’s going to be it, it’ll be a good fit down a Renko or no, we need to bring this up here because the ITAR regulations of some other other manufacturing, most likely that manufacturing was done in Cincinnati. That’s where majority of all of our bilateral business has been really done. And did you know, so we, we collectively between all the divisions we all work together to, to in order to go after some of these opportunities. I get opportunities that say you know what this is it’s a mild arrow, but it’s really better fit for Ringo than it is for standard. I send it to Kevin, Kevin Sinfield to Matt or whoever else and they run with it from there and likewise, yeah. So we all, it’s constantly being reviewed. So if you do bring an opportunity by all means it’s. Very well, very. We’ll take a look at it. You will be paid, Commissioner. He did go to Cincinnati. You will get paid Commission on which the internal agreement we’ve all had, we don’t have reference Cincinnati and but we will cover you guys for any opportunity that comes in, but as we go along presentation is that. You guys get out early now. Just make sure they’re red. That’s the big thing. You have the content. Thanks, Steve, you mentioned. Thank you. OK, you have me again. So. Who was here the last time we did EDS? When was that? 2018. Yes, that’s where ES did you go to Vegas? Who here remembers 2018? OK. So pretty COVID. Yeah. So I do apologize. This is going to be a regurgitation of the President of the engineering presentation there. But I think it’s just really good to reiterate and the idea is to synergistically sell your principles, right. As much as I’d like Ranko Standex to be your only focus in life, we understand that. You know, you have multiple principles and. From our experience. You know, for doing this for a while, we can get some very successful synergies between, you know, the different products you sell. So this kind of presentation want to walk through a power supply and we’ll discuss various other components in addition to the magnetics. So here is a. Offline power splice demanding and you know we I should brought the board I guess I didn’t I wasn’t very prepared for this year. So you know, so this is kind of a little bit of a mess for you guys, right? Is anyone here comfortable reading schematics? OK, so we’ll go a little bit you know we’re going to go a little bit more into this. So what are schematics? There are electrical diagrams used to design A circuit. They are actually intended to be human readable. Right. So it was organized. There’s organization in the schematic. They can be used to simulate the design. So before speeding up the board, most engineers like to have some idea that it works before they they go ahead and populate and do that. It’s commonly given to a layout person to do a PCB. So you design A circuit in a schematic. If you are in a small org, you lay out your PCB. If you’re a larger org, you might be able to send that schematic to someone to lay out the the PCB. And you know, a thing to note that the components all given designators on the board, they would know the designator for an doctor. Now out. Do they know the designator for a transformer? Tea tip and I have seen, I’ve seen XFMR on some, you know it’s not. You can write out well, you can write whatever you like on your silk screen. Those are your common ones. What’s your capacitor? Yeah. Exactly. So our resistor so forth, OK. So the the components are giving unique designators, typically printed on the screen, which typically matches schematic. OK, so that’s schematic. When implementing the board it looks like this. OK. This is the same. This is the same item that was shown just in a physical implementation. And by the way, this is all a Texas Instruments reference design, so we’re going to go through their docs. So how do you read, how do you make sense of this? Right. So in general, the all of our boards which are offline, as I mentioned, there’s the part that’s connected to the wall and there’s a part that is accessible to the equipment and humans and they are typically DC. You’re going to have a dividing line that is your isolation line. So you have AC and then DC on the output and you can typically almost draw a line in every board. So on the board that same location is here and this is what physical line demarcation. There you can actually see the the the missing copper separating your high voltage AC to your low voltage DC. Use that. That would interface with the users and equipment. So where do you begin? Does anyone? Does anyone know the best way to kind of identify where’s, where’s the where’s the head and where’s the tail of this? Though. You need to find your front, right? So how do you find your front? On a schematic? I always look for your diode bridge. It’s usually one of your very few diagonal. Drawn pieces in your schematic you can actually fly and that and that can cause a little bit more confusing. It can cause a little more confusion on the board. The telltale the front end. Typically your biggest cap, your ball cap, and it should be like probably a 400 plus Volt cap if it’s going to be universal input. Usually you’re not physically largest tap and also ask capacitors are telltale along with your common mode chokes. So when you’re looking at board, that’s usually what I draw my if I’m looking at board, I draw my eyes to those components. That guy, this is the front end, and you know your smaller electrolytic caps are in your output. Film schematic. You have a front end filter. This takes your wall voltage. And it’s going to filter it by direction can prevent noise from entering the circuit and hopefully prevent noise from leaving the circuit including the line. And it’s also going to rectify to DC. They want everyone familiar with the term rectification. It’s converting AC to DC. So, OK, so that’s just going over what I said. I usually look for the bridge. So. Here’s the here’s the front end filter on the command. All right. And this is kind of a nice little slide here. You can actually go in and you can see there’s a connector, there’s your wide gap. Here is your ex. Your ex cap common Mocho, X cap common mocho. And so forth. Yes, you should be able to see a direct. Relationship to those. So here are hopefully some of your some of your other items you might sell. So board connector, you’re going to need a way to get power from the line into the board. So if you sell connectors, that’s, you know, a need the customer is going to have if you have a mom for a fuse. Those are both typically in the front end. They mentioned your ex caps. And why caps? Well, they’re filtering components, so it’s going to be used in the front end filter. And in this case, there’s a thermostat as well. We also have a common mode choke. Hopefully you can get that in from ranco. This is actually not Orenco common mode choke on this. But when it comes to common mode chokes, we do have a catalog standard cell line various line frequency common mode chokes. We also make custom, mode jokes like this guy here. This one’s for Regal Beloit. Sometimes, in addition to a common mode choke, you might use a little in doctor responding. That’s pretty typical. All right, the next section is in this case we have power factor correction. So power factor correction is typical in power supplies that are above 80 watts. What it does is it helps ensure that the circuit is using power with voltage and current phase, AKA how the power company generates power. You know you generate voltage, you generate current, and everyone’s happy. Due to switching technologies, you can try to pull current when you wouldn’t normally be pulling. Current and that kind of puts a stress on the grid. So this is actually a European regulation over 80 watts. It has to have a certain power factor correction. OK. So what this is doing is it’s actually going to step up my line voltage to around 400 volts, which is why you’ll have a bigger panel here. So item we have a diode. Nothing too crazy there named Doctor Ryan. This is often a custom you can get away with the standard power factor correction show. You have your big large cap, so this is 270 microfarad 450 Volt capacitor. And also we have an extruded sink here for the switching effects. Does anyone have any of these other principles that I’ve mentioned so far? So who here is an electrolytic line? Right, so that I mean this, this big cap is a big, this is a big telltale that you know someone is at least plugging their thing onto the line voltage. Alright, so your diode crazy. Anyone this room is going to retire from from selling a diode in a power supply? First of all, candidates we leverage do. I think it talked about a little bit. Yeah, go ahead. Why don’t you go ahead, Gary. So those of you do have a CAP line and if you see ball caps are usually done by as POF and Florence and like that, that means it’s probably as Kevin mentioned the transformer. Other than that that’s the customer should have to be calling. Yeah, so. That’s something to keep an eye on your POS reports, right? They’re just buying a couple from digikey or or whoever they might be in an early design to. Of the the earlier renko’s involved in the design of a custom magnetic, the higher hit rate is. I don’t have a statistical number but I think all the business managers here and can can attest for that got feel on that. Alright, so we got the diode, we got the bulk cap, which is typically an electrolytic. In the cases where there’s not a PSD, there’s gonna still be a big ball cap, so it’s not a all or not there. There will always be this capacitor. As I mentioned the heat sink. And the Pfc and doctor here. So. Going back to schematic. All of this, all their stuff here. This is your log, your control. So this is your small resistors, your multilayer ceramic caps diodes. That’s nothing. Probably too exciting for months now. Maybe if you’re, you know. Alright, so now we’re going to go to the main transformer which is it’s an LC resonant transform. So you can do this in one part or two parts, but basically you have in this case we’re resonating an inductor with capacitor giving the sinusoidal waveform which gives you 0 voltage switching. So basically if you’re able to switch your power supply when there’s no voltage, you reduce your losses, gives you more efficient, less knowing the circuit. And then we have a transformer. Background in some designs are together. I find it easier to design an LLC with them separate unless you’re going into really bulk mass production. So like typically you’re, unless I checked your power supplies for most of your consumer televisions are really small LCD resin Transformers. So the output of this, so we’ve gone through, we’ve converted the high voltage AC into DC and then we’re hoping DC is going to have you know your low voltage caps to smooth the ripple voltage now. And in case of a fly back as mentioned, you know you have the capacity which is actually supplying energy to the circuit when you’re charging your primary and documents. A lot of times there’s inductors not on this circuit, but the inductor will help smooth ripple current. These are typically low inductance, high high DC saturation type devices. For those we probably picked from the catalog standard right. So you know these are are more or less standard product. We got the 5480 series, 6280, this one be probably about the most popular for now putting doctor it’s going to be about your highest current, the 8700 and the 7485. These are very standard components. I would say that most magnetic vendors have similar product if not direct. Processes and vice versa, that would mean we would have direct process many of our competitors standards. So in addition on this board. There’s a second AC/DC power supply with the LLC. So this one is just a little 12 Volt power supply. We call it a housekeeping supply. So the challenge with when you work with the high power circuit, a lot of times if you need to have it the output of that separate from your your if you need to support your your IC’s and your low voltage items with power you typically want to do a separate supply because you better regulation it doesn’t disrupt your other circuits so you more or less just kind of pull from that input voltage at different power supply. And this one’s located on page two of the print. It’s going to be after the Pfc rectification, so it’s going to be like a 400 Volt input fly back. Which makes it nice when you go after the Pfc because you have a very consistent input voltage. It makes the design easier. So that’s here you have the little fly back transformer here and there’s also a little wide can connect these primary and secondary. And then you have your output with. All your capacities and then another. Another. Connector for the outlook. Something to consider, like what else? What else? What else do you need? Is this person going to need? Unless you’re just making the board and passing it on, there’s going to be packaging. That’s any your enclosure, fans, surge protection membrane switches from who’s doing the PCB, who’s stuffing it where you getting the PCB from your interconnects. So connecting wires to wires or you’re clog. You know who is selling who? You know how are they getting power into this device? These are all opportunities for. Additional cells on the same product. And you know a lot of engineers are just, you know, a lot of engineers are purchasing are happy to deal with less people, right and kind of the nice thing is. If we’re designed in it, Renko, we got the transformer. You know, we should be getting the order. We should. You know the purchasing person and the engineer are. For more or less they’re engaged with us, right? So these other opportunities, they’re just a lot of times grabbing them from the catalog. Strong. So it’s kind of a summary of the power supply flow and I’m going to then just reiterate this, I think three times. Just to really drill it in, there’s typically three to four sections. You have an input filter and rectification, so putting power into the circuit and we’re typically turning into some form of DC voltage. There’s a Pfc stage, which is optional. That’s how we have three to four stages. If it’s over 80 watts, you probably have PSC. There’s going to be a main transform that is going to convert the input power to the input voltage to the output voltage and power desired by the application. There may be more than one transformer. And then we’re going to have output filtering. So to ensure that the outputs are smooth DC condition that’s required by the, you know, whatever is being connected to it, there’s going to be additional filtering. The other note is that the PC is going to typically follow the schematic. You know, I I mean, I know angiers can be strange at times, but they’ll typically be illogical from the front to the end, and that will also be shown in the PCB. And you know, another thing is to kind of know and understand where your other principles are found in the power supply. That’s kind of whole point of synergistic zone. Does anyone have any questions about that before we? Go through the power boards, Mr. Miller. Excellent. Can you talk about the? The the the Bob Gathercoal triple dip. So the best, the best synergistic cell. Unfortunately, Bob gather calls not here. I don’t have a part, I have it at Booth. We had a part that he worked with the customer on the design and he designed in a machine steel tubed and then he sent it Renko then assembled a transformer inside the steel tube and we had to use his sources apply and then we sold it to the CM that Bob Gathercoal also wrapped so. So Triple Crown that was yeah, yeah so. I think that’s the has there been more than triple dip? You know Bob, I think both the record, you see double dips. Double dips are quite common, right? Yeah, it’s going to you know CMU Rep that will give her side of the equation, improves you guys to give us your line cards because you know we’re looking for something we can, you know, it’s obviously makes more sense for us to try and access that through you because it’s a lot easier for us to find the components, right. And that also allows you to do essentially the double that right now not every the sales Rep can pull off the triple deck. Takes Bob gather pole, but it’s something that you all should perspire to achieve. I’ll say this, but one thing I hope you never hear from my Brimfield business manager, I think. Never object to talking about your otherwise in front of the task. Understand as part of the synergistic selling process the red brings. Yeah, I know you have other principles that probably objective. We will never ever object to this. If they will never do, let me know and I’ll talk to him. I mean we, we understand that, you know, it’s all about the total account, right? And I mean there’s many accounts that we go in and. You know, it’s it’s clear that the that the Rep is well versed in the account, is selling multiple lines and makes runco more important in the account. All right. Any any questions? Alright so I’m so these this is going to be a walk through. I don’t have the schematics but these are legitimately I just Google search power supply. About, you know, eight years ago, but you know, just to show that this flow is universal, there’s there’s nothing. So as I mentioned, there’s your AC input, there’s your filth front end filtering your isolation output in DC. This is not a ranco component. I don’t know what this is from. But so how do you find it? So where do you? Where do you begin? At the beginning? So how do you know where the input is? Large. Yeah, however you can remember is the answer, right? So you have your big common mode choke. Common mode chokes are usually easier identify their wine units. Being your ex steps, you got your big cat, you got some more camps and you have a connector. Along with something that gives you a high voltage. All right. So yeah, you have your connector, you have your common mode choke. So this case there would be custom, you know. You know, we we have catalog standard, but it varies, right? There’s about a 5050 from travel. Yeah. So the next stage is the AC/DC isolation that would be. Right there, right. And you can see a couple things, #1 there’s actually a line on the silk screen kind of A to separate the two. And also you know you can see that they split their their heat sink that’s so that they’re not they’re they’re separating from the high voltage to low voltage side because if they ran one continuous heat sink it would be a safety concern. Yeah, I mean this, this has your creeping clearance, which I guess we can talk about. They were doing gas, right? Yeah, that’s well. We get to there, so there’s your main transformer, so your output. You have your 2 electrolytics. And then in this case we have something that’s similar to our 5480 series, it’s not our 5480, but it probably cross or drop in there. And then we have our DC output we’ll connect on. All right. So this next one. Again, we’re just kind of, I just really want it’s all this is all universal for the most part. The same idea. Where’s the AC input? Anyone. Right hand side left, left the comment. Right there. Yeah. So, so again. I’ll use a laser pointer this time here. We have a big ball cap, so that’s an indication that this side of the transformer. Yeah, yeah. They they lay down the cat because it’s so big. I have no clue. I googled it, I don’t know, so I see a mistake. What’s the mistake? Why do they have a pin header for the output? Because normally on the other side you have. That’s a safety issue. OK, we’ll take your word board. Way too long to look at that. This is why you don’t. This is why you don’t buy random Amazon Power supply. So you have you know you you have your big ball cap. If your ex caps you have a common mode choke because this side of the transformer is going to be your AC input. So connected your EMI filter. Yeah, it’s the Y caps X Capcom mojo. AC/DC isolated the main transformer, so again there should be a decent line of demarcation. This distance actually concerns me a little bit. Yeah, so you’re right, it probably doesn’t create between France. And your output filter, so you got your network multicast. Those two look like they’re inductors that I’m pretty sure that’s an inductor on top, yeah. And I think this, this one, I don’t know if it’s the last one or there’s one after. We’ll see. We’ll all be surprised together, OK. I see. Question this one same question before. Where am I beginning? And why? Yeah. That’s. OK. Well, I mean that’s the thing though. They’re all flowing this way, right? I mean, you know, you can in theory go from right to left, right and you can flip them and you can fold them, but you’re, you’re generally going to want to and and this goes into safety, right. You, you have to maintain your creep and clearance throughout. So if you don’t have a good idea where on your board you’re maintaining it, you’re probably going to end up having problems. So this one’s nice. Because it has in the silkscreen danger mains voltage along here and you see the only thing standing in you have your white cap. We have a couple optos. And then the transform, obviously. Right. So your AC input this little Jack here. Your EMI filtering. Here so this is neat. So this is a, it’s an R 4400. It’s similar you know just to split you you who are whiny we have here the custom filter inductor. This is this is someone’s costume. This is not an off the shelf. It’s not. It’s mom with one triple save, one magnet wire 360 around, which would not be normal. It’s probably a very high free. My gut is it’s a high frequency common mojo that happened. Measure you know, a big ball cap. And then you have either here, it could be a Pfc. I can’t tell because there’s a shield and I couldn’t remove the shield in my Google image. But there’s a wire while item underneath there. It could be a filter, it could be like a differential mode show, it could be a PSC. I can’t tell I’m schematic. Your AC transformer, your main transformer I already pointed out here. I can tell from the picture too. And the flux fan. On the output. Anyone familiar with what a flux band is? So one method to remove to reduce EMI from the transformer would be to wrap a copper foil around the transformer and then you typically would ground it. Not always and that will help mitigate EMI from the radiated. I mean, I guess it could prevent conducted too, because it’s going to act in pain as well, but it’s typically for radiated, right? There’s an output filter. You can see if you look carefully, we got capacitors and I like this picture here because you connected to this L5 in the back. So unless there’s been board revisions, how many doctors are probably on this board at minimum? OK. So I will say a common mode choke is sometimes list. It really should be an L, sometimes it’s listed as a T. It gets confused because there’s two windings. So people I’ve seen it both, I can’t tell here what they’ve done there. Umm. Alright, so this is the last slide, the question I have for everyone here looking into this board and I discussed a couple things. What do you think is probably important to this customer? And we don’t know anything about them. It’s a Google image. We have. Hit one is we have a strange high frequency common mode choke. Doing some extra filtering. What’s that? Yeah, exactly. So you got shielding here. Big Shields here. And also the flux band on transformer. So you conducted and radiated issues, what they’re addressing, right? Yeah. I mean, well, I mean, again, I don’t know who the customer is, I just grabbed a different Google, but this. So you know, these are things where you can, you know, add value and recommendations. If you can identify that their concerns are EMI, RFI, it might alter some of the products you would recommend. All right. Does everyone? Other than going from left to right, does everyone? Is that helpful on looking at the boards? All right, so what’s everyone going to look for for the input? The input. Alright, so you’re all right. OK you know, just just keep in mind whatever makes sense in your own mind is what you want to use. That’s the gist, right? You’re just good at picking out the big cap. Pick out the big cap. If you’re good at looking at common chokes, look for common mode chokes. They, you know, they might not. They may not always exist. It’s under 10 watts. It’s probably not a common mode choke. So. All right. That’s all I have. And I think that concludes our engineering portion of the the day. Thank you. It is out there. Yep, we got early launch. Hour and a half. Sounds good. Typically. Connecting. But it doesn’t. 30. National Bank. Or something. But yeah. Ohh, I’d probably just yeah. I started my. Yeah, like we understood. Normally. OK. You know you can. Something. Thank you. Wait too much longer? Yeah. Cortana. We just have. Last. I got. Look at my front door. It’s not talking about. Your body. Village. 400,000 houses down. Yeah. You know, yeah. Yeah. Function. It’s. Mike, I see that 1256 would be long, is there is that? That’s what I thought, but the correct. I know I suck. Look at the bottom. There’s some kind of reinforcement pad on the bottom of that one. That one, that one. Cancel that one. The earlier ones were there cranking it out. Back in the back in the hip Ferrites starting about 10 minutes 12:30 ohh no, I’m getting ready to go down. We can finish up early. And I’m sure it’s heated. Still got to get it out. Thank you. I told him you said, hey, David. No, that’s right. Yeah. Like I’ve been walking. You know you can never return. We haven’t really gotten a lot of traction with buildings. Yeah. Graduated last year and we’re trying to build. I don’t know, but vitamin and I met with walking five times and there were nice guys and they were receptive. But yeah, we got one order on them, but that was it. Couldn’t we going to Saturday night?